Toronto place crash 2

[LittleInch]

A Delta plane appears to have touched a wing tip during landing, ripped the wing off then promptly flipped over onto its back.

As they were on the airfield and this time didn't run into anything or catch fire, everyone is alive, though not surprisingly some injuries.

All passengers survive crash landing as plane flips at Toronto airport

Eighteen of the 80 people on board were injured after the Delta plane overturned on landing.

www.bbc.co.uk

This video https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14407855/delta-plane-crash-toronto-fireball-footage.html makes it look like a very hard landing - no visible flare

 

[TugboatEng]

I have seen some of the YouTube experts mentioning the plume of snow being thrown by the wing tip striking the ground but I don't believe that to be true. I'm with DirteJoe that the plume we see is fuel from the ruptured tank. The wing tip may have never actually struck the ground. As I understand there wasn't any snow accumulated on the runway.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Normally your around 5 degs nose up flare just before touchdown at less than 300ft per min descent rate.

 

[TugboatEng]

While no official statements have been made, one of the possible pilots has had her social media profile purged.

 

[Sym P. le]

Watching the landing frame by frame, a plume erupts at the wing root. It appears to be an initial puff which would be the tire bursting followed by a denser conically expanding plume which, after a few frames, erupts, and then you can see the flames chase back to consume the entire plume (one of the passengers stated they could feel the heat through the window). This would be fuel, not snow. If the aircraft type has a history of gear failure on hard landings, this would be consistent with that.

Aside from a steep approach, a possible drop of wind speed, and longitudinal alignment issues, this clip also suggests a slight flair a few frames before touchdown, which further drove the right gear hard onto the asphalt. It will be interesting to see the recorded data.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

That's a good video.

I might add EASA the FO's can have under 200 total hours in aircraft.

The ones I fly with that are younger than this, I think the youngest currently is 19. And have around 260 hours out of the academy.

A 10knt gusting crosswind isn't that dramatic. The crj is relatively light as is the engines which can spool up quickly.

This is a young inexperienced pilot who didn't flare. They are not the first and certainly won't be the last. I certainly did the same thing at the same experience level.

To me this more of what was going on in the Captain's seat. We are expected to deal with this sort of situation. And have to depending on the current fleet experience profile.

I am expecting quite a few pages on the human performance issues with the Captain when they release the interim report.

 

[LittleInch]

This little markup though shows the landing gear doesn't even need to completely collapse. I rotated the front view only 8 degrees. So you wonder what amount of compression each wheel can have.

It's going to be some time I think before they can figure out cause from effect and actions of which ever pilot(s) were actually flying.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Inaction I suspect will be mentioned.

 

[Garbage1]

3D Printed CRJ Model looses right wing at base in flight. Rolls several times as a result.

 

[DirteJoe]

Passengers of the plane have been reporting multiple events of bumps and drops from possibly wind as they were coming in just before they crashed. I wonder of the data will show there was a sudden drop in airspeed just before they slammed into the runway. To make it as short of a distance as they did, they didn't have much energy to begin with. No doubt human performance will be a factor, but it honestly does not look like the main reasoning behind the crash.

I do part time work for a skydive CREW team. Multiple national and world champions with oodles of medals and world records. On more than one occasion I've witnsssed windshear just before they're ready to flare lead to collapsed cannopys and 30-40ft near instant falls to the ground. Always typically in the vacinity of large hangers and stadiums. We deploy smoke in the landing areas now due to this so they can alter their landing paths now due to that. Last year shortly after the hurricane that crossed FL, we were getting blown around by wind as we stood on te tarmac of Daytona International. Over near the speedway, there was nearly no wind period both infield and on the outside of the banks. I do believe that weekend 07L was closed for landing due to shear coming off the speedway and the Amazon dist center located near by.

Its quite possible the bump ATC mentioned was in reference to windshear, not the ILS. Unlikely, but possible.

 

[Garbage1]

Pay attention to increased rate of decent plot before touch down in blanco's analysis. I agree what some think was snow at wing root, was fuel releasing from wing before ignition from wing meeting ground.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

just for information

Bombardier CRJ700 Guide and Specs: The Quintessential Regional

The first time I flew a short regional route, walked through the jetway, and got into what I could only describe as a mini-jet. I couldn’t stand up straight, and if I did the plank

aviatorinsider.com

I didn't know that the CRJ had been sold on to Mitsubishi not that it will be a factor.

The approach certainly didn't look "special"

I don't think the CRJ has autothrust which can cause issues with sudden power reduction.

I also can't find out if this aircraft will have mode 7 EGPW's system to alert for windshear or predict it using doppler off the WX radar. I think CRJ is 1990's. The Q400 certainly didn't have it, Which is why the CC used to swap to fly on our fleet if they needed to get home...

 

[Garbage1]

just for information

Bombardier CRJ700 Guide and Specs: The Quintessential Regional

The first time I flew a short regional route, walked through the jetway, and got into what I could only describe as a mini-jet. I couldn’t stand up straight, and if I did the plank

aviatorinsider.com

I didn't know that the CRJ had been sold on to Mitsubishi not that it will be a factor.

The approach certainly didn't look "special"

I don't think the CRJ has autothrust which can cause issues with sudden power reduction.

I also can't find out if this aircraft will have mode 7 EGPW's system to alert for windshear or predict it using doppler off the WX radar. I think CRJ is 1990's. The Q400 certainly didn't have it, Which is why the CC used to swap to fly on our fleet if they needed to get home...

Quote. "The CRJ700 is one of the most popular regional jetliners in operation today. Bombardier produced the CRJ700 for 21 years, starting in 1999, but ended production in 2020 after the CRJ program was sold to Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which won’t manufacture any new aircraft but will continue to maintain and support existing units."

"Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) ceased production of the CRJ aircraft after they acquired the program because the CRJ is a direct competitor to their Space Jet program. But why pay an absurd amount of money to buy a program to cancel it? MHI was simply after the established CRJ maintenance network."

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

here is some sporty xwind approaches.

I remember that storm.

 

[Garbage1]

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

That's vertical G

I think there is also horizontal component to these things and also angle to the centre line.

The aircraft these days do record a G to the maintenance. But from what I can tell it's a factorised load number. I have felt some slammer landings but the nose was straight down the runway and zero lateral movement. Reports and techlog entry made. And no data monitoring email afterwards.

Landing that I had zero issues with the feeling of it but is pointing off yaw with a bit of skid has the technical turning up 20mins on stand saying the aircraft is telling us it needs a 1st level heavy landing check which I think is 2.1g to 2.3g by the HMU.