Toronto place crash 4

[LittleInch]

A Delta plane appears to have touched a wing tip during landing, ripped the wing off then promptly flipped over onto its back.

As they were on the airfield and this time didn't run into anything or catch fire, everyone is alive, though not surprisingly some injuries.

All passengers survive crash landing as plane flips at Toronto airport

Eighteen of the 80 people on board were injured after the Delta plane overturned on landing.

www.bbc.co.uk

This video https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14407855/delta-plane-crash-toronto-fireball-footage.html makes it look like a very hard landing - no visible flare

 

[LittleInch]

The only really interesting point he makes is that apparently the runway was only snow ploughed / cleared to 160 ft wide instead of the normal 200 ft wide bit of tarmac, so he speculates that this confused them in terms of spacial awareness of height.

otherwise pretty standard assessment we've all gone through here, i.e. throttled back, basically allowed the plane to crash land, he's sticking with the wing hit the ground theory after the undercarriage strut collapsed and goes to town on the very low number of flying hours of the captain and lack of taking control or other actions (though we don't have a transcript of the CVR).

 

[Garbage1]

I find it hard to believe that all runways are same width, thus can't believe pilots are using runway width as part of their depth perception. Pilot was centered on approach, which seems to be the key feature of center line being in center of cleared runway.

He further alludes that PF with 450 recent hours in CRJ, likely is more experienced than Pilot Trainer, who has mostly sim hours, and like very little current hours actually flying a CRJ, and total hours of 750 hours in CRJ is spread over almost 2 decades.

So lack of real world experience in cockpit.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

They aren't but yes we can mess it up due depth perception. Filton in the UK where they tested Concorde I had to mantra myself all they way down don't flare don't flare until it's all black on front.

I said a little bit about the hours of the instructor. There is something not smelling right with his profile.

 

[Garbage1]

If width matters, how do you handle the situation when flying first time into an airport that you have not calibrated width of runway to height in your memory vault?

I can see taking in all visual cues over time at each air field you regularly fly, then dialing in visuals with typical heights and thus width affects you calibrated mrmory bank. But in heavy snow areas, I would think cleared width varies over time.

Whichs leads to why put pilots in training into in snow conditions this early in flight training, without a seasoned pilot training?

Season in real world scenarios, not virtual world mainly.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Experience comes into play.

And these days the EGPWs counts you down using the rad alt heigh

There are differences between a summer trained and winter first commercial job pilot in snow regions.

The captain is ment to mentor less experienced colleagues through the learning experience. Island airports also have a thing or two to learn about.

 

[LittleInch]

I find it hard to believe that all runways are same width, thus can't believe pilots are using runway width as part of their depth perception. Pilot was centered on approach, which seems to be the key feature of center line being in center of cleared runway.

He further alludes that PF with 450 recent hours in CRJ, likely is more experienced than Pilot Trainer, who has mostly sim hours, and like very little current hours actually flying a CRJ, and total hours of 750 hours in CRJ is spread over almost 2 decades.

So lack of real world experience in cockpit.

I think it's that if the pilot was used to flying into that airport then it's the difference from one day to the next that he's commenting on..

At their sink rate at the call out of 50 ft they had 2.7 seconds before hitting the deck. Not much time really., but enough to do something like flare. The engines wouldn't have had enough time to spool up.

There's something a bit odd with a pretty inexperienced FO paired with a Captain who basically hardly actually flew a physical aircraft on a gusty snowy day. That needs some explanation.

 

[LittleInch]

They aren't but yes we can mess it up due depth perception. Filton in the UK where they tested Concorde I had to mantra myself all they way down don't flare don't flare until it's all black on front.

I said a little bit about the hours of the instructor. There is something not smelling right with his profile.

I see what you mean. It's 95m wide! Heathrow between the lines is 45 or 70m for the actual strip of tarmac

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Especially when the Jetstream was just under 16m wing span.



We used to do the BAe corp buses from Warton to various places round the UK.

Filton just had a feeling about it. I don't think the runway was that long compared to a few cold war mil ones.

 

[LittleInch]

It's not super long, but its up there - 2,700m / 9000ft.

Stn is 3000m, heathrow 3,300, even mildenhall is less than that.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Today it's a building site for housing.

 

[LittleInch]

I know. I've driven past it recently. Brabazon village I think they've cake it after this

https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/heritage/bristol-167-brabazon

At its time one of the biggest airliners ever built.

Basically a UK version of the Spuice Goose .... and about as successful.

Pity they literally broke up the only one ever made.