Tourist submersible visting the Titanic is missing 101

[thebard3]

List of inventors killed by their own invention

There's probably another list somewhere that's a whole lot longer than that

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[thebard3]

Cameron said. “I was also told, and I don’t have confirmation on this...

That didn't stop him from saying it, though.

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[Tomfh]

What’s the deepest it ever went?

When testing a vessel like this, would
it be feasible to do an automated test dive in a much deeper location?

The person who was dismissed (Lochridge) referred to lack of testing. What would such testing consist of?

 

[GregLocock]

A winch and a deep bit of water is all you need. Trouble is with low cycle fatigue you aren't really doing much of a test unless you have a reasonable number of tests to destruction.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[thebard3]

Now being reported that James Cameron says...yada-yada-yada... Link
He seems to know more than everyone else.
I really liked 'Aliens' though.

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[Cool_Controls]

I believe oceangate built a 1/3 model and tested it at woods hole Link apparently they didn't do enough tests or didn't heed the results.

 

[GregLocock]

Stress raisers

OK, probably not the end of the world, but the correct approach is to bond a plate to the hull, not drill bloody screwholes in the hull.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[Reverse_Bias]

OK, probably not the end of the world, but the correct approach is to bond a plate to the hull, not drill bloody screwholes in the hull.

Those aren't drilled into the hull, there's some sort of an acrylic inner lining.

 

[Cool_Controls]

It may not be screwed into the hull, there seems to be a traslucent lining installed with lighting behind it.

 

[thebard3]

An interior lining seems appropriate to protect the pressure hull from incidental damage. Drilling holes in the vessel wall would definitely be NOT cool.

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[CWB1]

There are young engineers who are risk averse because of their lack of experience and there are older engineers who are risk averse because they have become set in their ways. There is no truism on this which is 100%.

Huh? Risk management/quality programs are specifically designed to exclude human nature. At best, a diligent but inexperienced engineer will draft an incomplete FMEA that doesnt cover the variety of potential failure modes nor mitigate risk. Experienced SMEs aren't an option in engineering, they're an ethical (and usually legal) requirement.

 

[TugboatEng]

There was a Reddit link with pictures of the interior. It clearly showed a perforated metal liner that stood off the wall by a few inches. Sadly, that post has been deleted.

 

[Brian Malone]

Huh? Risk management/quality programs are specifically designed to exclude human nature. At best, a diligent but inexperienced engineer will draft an incomplete FMEA that doesnt cover the variety of potential failure modes nor mitigate risk. Experienced SMEs aren't an option in engineering, they're an ethical (and usually legal) requirement.

My observation is encompassing the whole of engineering. The comments that have been posted about OceanGate using agism/ wokeness to eliminate qualified engineering have not specified only quality/safety engineering.

An FMEA is only as good as the ability of the team to fully assess the all forseeable risk factors and properly rate them and determine proper mitigation. We only know part of the story with the dismissal of Mr. Lochridge and the following litigation. Possibly, other members of the OceanGate team analyzed the FMEA differently and that is not unusual. We do not know the extent of any non-destructive testing he advocated for or the extent of any that was done after he left. We do not know totally if any ND testing would have identified the fault mode of the failure for this novel composite structure placed in a very brutal environment - and analysis is based on a sample of one. I suspect we won't find out details of Lochridge litigation since it probably includes hush clauses with the payment to settle.

 

[IRstuff]

The comments that have been posted about OceanGate using agism/ wokeness to eliminate qualified engineering have not specified only quality/safety engineering.

Rush didn't want OG engineers adhering to the status quo that might stifle his vision of low-cost tourism in deep-sea subs; nothing to do with agism or wokeism (which is obviously a dog-whistle), just arrogance and egotism.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[dik]

I thought for it to disappear so quickly without a trace... it was likely catestrophic... the third comment in this thread pretty much sums it up.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[LittleInch]

Given what we know now, I think the mothership crew have been rather economical with the truth from the start.

They could have said something like, We track the position of the sub using an independent locator beacons. This stopped working at the same time we lost communication. This may be caused by a fault and so we are looking for the sub on the surface or the sea floor.

And if they had received notice that the sub was doing an emergency accent they should have released that information as well. Then everyone would have had a more realistic set of expectations about the chances of finding anyone alive.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[waross]

I don't think that criticism of the search efforts is justified.
Search and rescue craft and resources were mobilized almost immediately.
There was an undersea sound detected but it was inconclusive.
In hind sight that was probably the implosion, but;
Other sounds were detected that turned out to be not from the sub.
Without conclusive evidence, the sub may have been on the bottom or on the surface and both possibilities were covered.
While those searchers with knowledge of the sound of a possible implosion probably suspected that it was too late, it does not appear that they let those suspicions affect or slow the search.
I think that the searchers did an excellent job and deserve congratulations. Admittedly, given the tragedy, congratulations for the searchers probably won't make the news.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[Cool_Controls]

Canadian investigators have seized voice recorders from the mothership so they should have a good idea of what they knew and when the knew it Link

Also from linked article:
"And when submersible expert Karl Stanley was aboard the Titan for an underseas excursion off the coast of the Bahamas in April 2019, he felt there was something wrong with the vessel when loud noises were heard and sent an email to Rush, the CEO of OceanGate Expeditions, sounding the alarm on suspected defects.
“What we heard, in my opinion … sounded like a flaw/defect in one area being acted on by the tremendous pressures and being crushed/damaged,” Stanley wrote in the email, a copy of which has been obtained by CNN.

“From the intensity of the sounds, the fact that they never totally stopped at depth, and the fact that there were sounds at about 300 feet that indicated a relaxing of stored energy /would indicate that there is an area of the hull that is breaking down/ getting spongy,” Stanley continued.

 

[Brian Malone]

One of many BBC stories covering Stockton Rush:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66014565.amp

 

[dik]

Not a problem if you are only putting yourself at risk... when you kill an additional four other people, it different.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik