Tourist submersible visting the Titanic is missing 101

[BrianPetersen]

Not even sure how many backup systems it has or the reliability of external equipment.

They claimed to have "seven different ways to return to the surface". They claimed that some of those work even if the power is out and everybody onboard is passed out.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/20/1183273102/titan-missing-sub-titanic-rescue-oceangate

But, it seems as if this outfit made all sorts of claims. I betcha there was a common failure point ... and none of this matters if there is a structural failure.

 

[1503-44]

Bolted in from outside makes surfacing pretty useless (ironic), unless you manage to strike the bow of the support ship.

They might could have managed a rescue with the equipment on the support ship, if indeed they had that capability, but as soon as they had to phone home, the logistics went very much against that possibility. You lose 40 hours just getting something out there, even assuming that something was just waiting for the call. After a bit of mission time, 24-48h to find and recover isn't all that much. If nothing was on hot standby, it's frankly just not possible, unless they found it on the surface and could air drop divers and flotation. Do rescue helicopters even have a 1000 miles range? They'd probably have to do that with a fixed wing. I'd freeking want an aircraft carrier on station before I jumped in to save them.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Murph 9000]

The fixed wing aircraft were a viable solution for surface search and rescue. For this particular case, dropping rescue divers from a helicopter isn't really all that important. Locating them on the surface wouldn't be easy, but is certainly feasible for an experienced maritime SAR organisation. After that, it's a case of getting a support ship to the location, something which could crane/winch the sub aboard. I think a successful surface rescue was quite possible in the timescale available, if they had made it back to the surface.

As far as helicopter range goes, the larger US Coastguard cutters have helicopter pads and refuelling capability. Once they had a suitable ship within a couple of hundred miles of the operation, they would have helicopter capabilities available.

 

[electricpete]

The psychology of this voyage reminds me in some ways of climbing Mount Everest.... You put your life on the line and don't accomplish anything other than getting some excitement, cool photos, stories and bragging rights.

Some people have an adventurous spirit. They see things differently. I follow some of the men and women who row and kayak across oceans. Long distance stuff. The Atlantic. The pacific. The Indian Ocean. The Tasman sea. It’s extremely hard, it takes people months, and is very dangerous. People die attempting it. They get a lot of abuse for risking their lives for what others see as a needless risk. For whatever reason they have to do this crazy stuff.

When I was in my 20s, I went from Vancouver to Victoria in an 18' outboard motor boat... Long trip... and my only concern was Orcas (It wasn't really a problem back then, but it appears to be one now). I used to be 10' tall and bulletproof back then... I've aged and am only slight attack resistant.

Fair points. Some say you're never as alive as when you confront your own death. I have a few kayak stories that I'm not proud of. Like when me and my brother chose to paddle our 2-man kayak through San Luis pass about a mile and a half out into the Gulf of Mexico into very strong waves / winds. We thought paddling "upstream" into the waves / winds would be the hard part. We didn't really think about what would happen when we turned around. When we turned around to go back we found ourselves surfing with the waves, and as we got closer to the mouth of the pass those waves got bigger and we went faster and faster. My gps recorded 8.5 mph, we felt like we were able to control our direction with our paddles, we were having a blast, what could possibly go wrong?!? Well, it turns out a kayak is not exactly stable at that speed and the whole kayak suddenly turned sideways to the waves, and before we could straighten we got hit broadside by a wave. We rocked and rolled like crazy, but somehow we managed not to capsize. If we had capsized, there's no way we could have gotten back onto the kayak in that rough water still at least a mile from the nearest land (the pass is pretty wide and we hadn't quite reached the pass yet). Ordinarily that wouldn't be such a big deal, but when did we choose to pull this exploratory stunt? Dead in the middle of winter when the water temperature would have been in the 50's and we were wearing typical winter clothes but no wetsuits. In retrospect, it was not exactly a smart move.... I could've been a candidate for a Darwin award.

 

[ctopher]

Anybody that climbs into a submarine with a Bluetooth Xbox controller, is taking a chance. Suicide IMO.

Chris, CSWP
SolidWorks
ctophers home

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I believe the international space station is controlled by an old single thread processor laptop.

 

[Craig_H]

Of all the concerns with the Logitech controller, the one that scared me the most was when the CEO discussed handing it to the passengers to drive with.

 

[LittleInch]

On that dissolving connection for the sandbags, I do wonder if they thought about the chemical activity reducing considerably at those sorts of depths...

And the reliability / failsafe nature of the other connections to let it float upwards are not detailed or defined. given what we know so far I have my doubts that they are anywhere close to SIL 3.

And I don't know how the Carbon fibre and titanium ends can be defined as "fail safe"...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[1503-44]

I saw that clip. It kind of worried me that he was giving the impression that nolo tech was the greatest thing. I'm all for lo tech solutions, because they're usually reliable and fixable, but counting on some game controller, all plastic parts, skinny micro thin wires, dirty contacts, humid environment, salty hands, no thank you. I hate it when the buttons get stuck in the down position. Game Over.

I think AI could be the best thing to happen for company shareholders. I'm working on an AI4CEO.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[CWB1]

Anybody that climbs into a submarine with a Bluetooth Xbox controller, is taking a chance.

I've never found a wireless controller that was high-enough quality to satisfy me. The data links all seem to fail for a few seconds at critical moments even when the batteries dont. Granted, I'm just a guy that's owned various PCs/consoles and not a serious gamer, so I'm prob using "cheap" controllers in a home full of interfering signals. Rather ironically, one of my gaming strategies is actually to offer guests/opponents a wireless controller while I remain corded.

~15 years ago in the military my unit participated in a study to determine the advantages/disadvantages of gaming controllers over joysticks for controlling vehicle weapon systems. Thankfully all were wired and IIRC standard joysticks were both preferred and more advantageous.

 

[SnTMan]

https://www.insider.com/titanic-sub...ate-david-pogue-2023-6?amp&utm_source=taboola

Lost for you 5 hrs on a previous dive.

Not encouraging

.
..

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[LittleInch]

That makes a good point and I've seen it in the videos, that the sub has no real knowledge of where it is and needs the mother ship to tell it go left 100m then forward, or something like titanic is on your left side 150m away. All by text message presumably by some sort of ultra low frequency sound.

So,

1) how does the mother ship know / knew where the sub was?
2) what happened this time?
3) Has the text thing stopped responding?
4) can the sub send messages back normally?
5) Was there normally any tracking or feedback from the sub to the mother ship?

Anyone any idea?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[LittleInch]

USCG apparently tweeting that they have found a "debris field" within the search area by ROV. More details awaited.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[hacksaw]

All contact was lost during the descent.

Amazing, the craft had no external pinger (depth, speed,location), nor any automatic release of the dead weight, installed so that the mothership could track it on the way down, and speed any recovery at the moment.

 

[rodface]

USCG apparently tweeting that they have found a "debris field" within the search area by ROV. More details awaited.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/3616db6

News conference will be held 3PM EST.

Of all the outcomes one could hope for in a situation like this, quick and painless is the one I've been hoping for evidence of.

 

[dik]

Maybe when they reached the 1300m level.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[ctopher]

Maybe the Xbox controller battery died, they are drifting across the ocean. I'll be at the SoCal coast tomorrow, I'll keep my eyes open on the beach. LOL
The banging could be them frantically looking for AA batteries.

Chris, CSWP
SolidWorks
ctophers home

 

[LittleInch]

Not really a laughing matter Chris.

If correct five people have died.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[rodface]

A Reddit user posted some very up close photos of the vehicle in 2019. The photos show the equipment configuration normally obscured by the stern fairing:

Album:

https://old.reddit.com/r/titanic/comments/14fexz0/my_friends_and_i_got_to_poke_around_in_the/

A battery is visible, as well as many large foam blocks. Frame construction and cabling/wiring methods can be observed.

https://preview.redd.it/1a9ml4czve7...ed&s=544f11c48f19a2970efc0282b54a486a395960a4

photo 6 gives a very close view of the inside surface of the bow titanium dome, and what I assume is the weld between the porthole assembly and the dome:

https://preview.redd.it/uwi7v5czve7...ed&s=2b22205d36eb7bcecd76a5b8a4bd2726305b1922

 

[TugboatEng]

Knowing there is a debris field it would seem that the carbon fiber shell collapsed. I don't think failures elsewhere such as the domes or view port would scatter many components.