Toyota Landcruiser V8 turbo diesel engine. VDJ 14

[danielerror]

Could a twin turbo Diesel engine (1VD-FTV) run for 10,000kms after having been dusted? The symptoms were excess oil usage under load (towing). I've been told by an automotive engineer that was impossible but the vehicle seemed to be in a slow decline, not a sudden drop in performance.

 

[danielerror]

Answering a couple of questions

Semi Synthetic 10w30 at service, topped up with Penrite semi for diesel 5w40. Previous owners service receipt just said oil 9.5L (I drove to the mechanic and asked for the details)

Usually no smoke, sometimes tiny bit of white smoke. Only three cylinders were down on compression in the end, not sure if that makes a difference.

In many cases these deposits are contributing to the oil-seal. Often the rings are stuck or at least sticky. The synthetic oil eventually frees them up and allows them to function normally.

Could I have not noticed it was using oil because it used so little oil over the 2000kms of no load and then burned off 2l in 400kms when the caravan was on? My experience was it only burned oil when towing but that's not a scientific test.

Ive been told the oil can go into the crankcase, the turbo or the intercooler. Apparently eventually the car gets full of oil or it just burns it off depends who you ask.

I have no clue what he means by the constantly thinning argument. But then, I have no idea who he is. Is that the judge?

The expert witness said it in response to my email. He has 53 years in the Automotive Engineering field and is the head of a firm of consulting engineers. Trying not to give away who he is because I don't think it's appropriate. I think I can stay vague and say he was high up in engineering for one of the truck manufacturers in charge of over a hundred staff and has been instrumental in a number truck designs in Australia.
Member of the Institute of Engineers Australia.
Member of the Institute of Road Transport Engineers
Member of the institute of Operational Engineers
Member of the Commercial Vehicle Industry Association of Australia
Member of the Motor Traders Association. N.S.W.
Member of Standards Australia
Member of the Crane industry Council of Australia
Member of the Elevating Work Platfom Association of Australia
Approved ADR test Facility with the Federal Office of Road Safety.
Engineering Signatory for the Queensland Dept of Transport.
Engineering Signatory for Workcover equipment certification Australia wide.

I checked with the Associations before hiring him.

Studying Social Science: Psyc major, Comms minor. Took a year off work (Film School teacher) to travel around Australia with my partner and four kids. Toyota LandCrusier 4.5L V8 twin turbo, Jayco Sterling.

 

[danielerror]

I'm not sure if this makes it clearer this is the email I wrote and his reply. I kind of feel like we are talking about different things, I had a low oil light not a low pressure light.

Hi ######.
In the orders it states "Mr Expert Witness said when the oil light comes on, that tells you there is a problem with oil pressure, and he said it was 'correct' that upon an engine being dusted the light would come on quickly, with or without towing anything."
If this is the case why didn't the light stay on once I topped up the oil? I don't understand why low oil and dusting would be connected.



Daniel, Filling up the engine oil level all it did was thin the oil out and allowed the oil pressure switch to function . once the viscosity of the oil got heavier or thickened the light would come on.
I am not changing my findings and I will not be attending any hearing to try and amend the results.



Hi #####, If you don't want to write the report about the low oil level being different than oil pressure and not a symptom of dusting, I understand. Could you let me know why please.

Thanks for putting up with my questions.



Daniel, the report dates the 12th of July covers all of the technical points that the administrator needs.
The report clearly explains the difference between oil pressure and low oil level. Because the oil being used in the engine being a synthetic oil it is continually thinning the engine oil and thus giving a false Indicator.



Hi ######
This part of the report?
The Oil Pressure light will only operate when the engine is initially started and will go out when the oil pressure reaches the designed oil pressure which is preset by the manufacture of the vehicle and or engine.
The fitment of a low oil indicator light is operated by a pressure switch located in an oil gallery and has a time delay before the oil level light indicates.
I'm sorry I'm such a layman, does this answer if a low oil level light when towing would be a symptom of dusting?



Daniel, Re my report The function of the oil pressure switch and the low oil level indicator light are separate and operate separately.
Towing anything should make no difference




Hi ######
This is great. Which report is this statement in? I only have the one from you.

Are you saying this means the same thing?
The Oil Pressure light will only operate when the engine is initially started and will go out when the oil pressure reaches the designed oil pressure which is preset by the manufacture of the vehicle and or engine.

The fitment of a low oil indicator light is operated by a pressure switch located in an oil gallery
and has a time delay before the oil level light indicates.



He never replied. I was hoping someone on here could explain what he meant.




Studying Social Science: Psyc major, Comms minor. Took a year off work (Film School teacher) to travel around Australia with my partner and four kids. Toyota LandCrusier 4.5L V8 twin turbo, Jayco Sterling.

 

[LionelHutz]

Already did.

 

[gruntguru]

Looking at the expert's responses to your emails, he is of the belief that illumination of the warning light was caused by oil thickening. The alternatives that will commonly cause low oil pressure are:
1. Low oil level causing the pump to "suck air".
2. Excessive wear in the oil pump, bearings or other pressure lubricated parts.
3. Thick oil in the pan causing the pump to suck air.

Reasons to believe it is not "3."

1. "3." does not occur immediately after an oil and filter change. It takes some time for the combination of blowby (worn rings in "dusted" engine) and poor combustion (faulty injectors or over-fuelling) to add enough soot (carbon) to the oil.
2. "3." will manifest itself when the engine is first started and the oil is cold and thick. The problem usually improves as the engine heats up. You seem to have had the opposite result.

It would be interesting to have the expert confirm that his diagnosis was "3." and what evidence led him to that conlusion.

je suis charlie

 

[danielerror]

Thanks gruntguru these posts have been very informative and as usual have filled in the blanks for me. Unfortunately I'm not sure I will be able to get him to confirm much anymore.

Thanks LionelHutz, I think you have gone strait to the point of the matter. I did hire him hoping to have my testimony confirmed. Or at least be warned by him the low oil level light coming on was a reason to not go to tribunal. In his most recent report he points out all the things I did wrong that were not covered in court, I'm not sure why though. At least he is no longer charging me, he was quite expensive.

Studying Social Science: Psyc major, Comms minor. Took a year off work, Film School teacher (ask me questions about image capture devices and pipelines) to travel around Australia with my partner and four kids. Toyota LandCrusier 4.5L V8 twin turbo, Jayco Sterling.

 

[LionelHutz]

A low oil level light coming on with an engine that has cylinder/ring damage and uses a lot of oil makes perfect sense. The oil level in the engine will be dropping pretty quickly since the engine is consuming a lot of oil. The light would also go out again once enough oil was added to bring the engine back to the full level. The functionality of a true oil level warning has nothing to do with the oil thickness or the engine oil pressure while running.