WAVE v Promote Body

[SiW979]

We use lots of WAVE linking in our parts, be it for handed components (mirror WAVE) or for casting that are machined. It suits the way we do busniess as it gives us lots of control over part numbering etc.

My questions are:-

1 - Is there anything promote body can do that WAVE cannot?

2 - Where would promote mody be a better choice over WAVE?

Cheers people

Si

Best regards

Simon NX 7.5.4.4 MP8 and NX 8.5 (native) - TC 8

http://www.jcb.com

 

[twimer]

In general, I think wave linking is much more powerful and useful. The only time I use promote body is when I want to make the manufacturing process clear (for example, when I have a casting modeled as one part and I want to create a different part for the machining of the casting).

If you put a component in an assembly and wave link the component, you end up with two bodies superimposed. To get rid of this, you need to mess with the reference sets / layers or suppress or delete the original component. At my company we have modeling rules to keep down load times of large assemblies and this leaves deleting the original component as my only option. When this is done, its not immediately clear where the wave link originated. We also use TC and automatically export a bill of materials for large assemblies and deleting the original component breaks this link as well.

With promote body, you can put a component into an assembly, and promote body will push the geometry to the assembly level so you can make cuts, holes, etc and and componenet will still show in the assembly navigator.

Hope this helps.

 

[SiW979]

We use WAVE all the time, but some people are saying promote body is better in some instances, but I fail to see why. For example, we need two part numbers for a casting. The blank and the machined part. We would never ever want to see the blank in main machine assembly, therfore promote body would be useless. Instead, we would create a new part, add the blank as a child, WAVE link the body, then use suppression so that the blank never gets seen at any assembly level, doesn't add mass to the assembly, but does create a small parts list in TC to show that the machined part is created from the blank. So I;m struggling to find where promote body would offer any benefits to a business like ours over WAVE. I guess the only time it would be useful is if there are any small operation carried out during assembly on the production line but I guess assembly cut takes care of this.

Best regards

Simon NX 7.5.4.4 MP8 and NX 8.5 (native) - TC 8

http://www.jcb.com

 

[kapmnit123]

Hi Simon,
I have rarely used promotions and think Wave linking is a better bet.It is easily traceable (through relation browser) controlled behaviour (associativity manager) and can be re-linked in case the links gets broken up mistakenly.Promote doesn't offer you any of these and that is the reason perhaps why when you double click a promoted body you get an option to CONVERT TO A LINKED BODY).Also Weldaments too offer a choice between Promote and Wave Linking (which i guess in the initial days ran on Promotions only..if i am not wrong)..so for me wave is always a promising choice.
Best Regards
Kapil Sharma

 

[twimer]

Castings are the exact reason that I generally use promote body. We also carry the cast model and machined model on separate part numbers. When creating the machined model, I will add the cast model as a component, promote body, and then apply the appropriate machining. Promote body does NOT create a second body as wave does but lets you modify the component with additional operations.

Because the cast part is a component in the machined part, the buyers/planners at our company can see that the machined part number is consuming a cast part number. So, if we need qty 10 of part number 1273601-002, they get an automatic flag that they need qty 10 of 1273601-001. This gets really handy with larger assemblies that are all made different ways. For example, we have one part that is a 4 piece weldment, 2 of the pieces are made from castings, 1 from a forging, and 1 from raw material. This weldment is then placed in a larger assembly that drives demand. When the schedule says we need qty 2 of the top level assy, the system (teamcenter) then tells the planners all of the parts that should be in stock to make that assembly, so they know to order the appropriate castings and forgings. But, this only happens if parts are modeled as being consumed at the correct times.

You can do all of this with assembly cuts, but it is generally harder to deal with (you can only do subtract) and the load times are longer if you are opening an assembly with many components that have assembly cuts.

As you said, wave is the easiest / fastest / most flexible. If you don't need things to reference each other as I described above, I haven't found a reason to use promote body.

 

[jerry1423]

Yes, it's the "second body" thing that I don't like either.

 

[cubalibre000]

Hi JCBCAD,
unfortunately Siemens PLM engineers doesn't have idea how machinery company works.
Cast iron parts, molded parts or machined assembly are the common daily workflow.

There are three type of solution to handle cast or molded parts.
1) Assembly cut
Pro :
- No reference.
Against :
a) Feature can't be related to the component without wave geometry link feature, but only to the work assembly.
b) Property weight (born in NX8), calculate only the weight of the added or removed feature.
c) NX creates the 'Model' reference set, so you have to manually remove all the feature added in the assembly. This operation must be done each time you add new assembly feature.


2) Wave Geometry Link Body
Pro :
It is easily traceable (through relation browser) controlled behavior (associativity manager) and can be re-linked in case the links gets broken up mistakenly.
Against :
a) NX creates the 'Model' reference set, so you have to manually remove the component that you have linked. This operation must be done each time if you add a new linked body, for example another machined part.
b) Property weight (born in NX8), calculate only the weight of the feature present in the assembly.
c) Weight assembly column show the weight related to the components, plus the wave geometry linked body. So if you link all components, the weight assembly column show N°components x 2.
d) Resolve to problem c), you need the advanced weight management license (price like a car).
e) If you baloon this assembly, linked body aren't balooned.

3) Promotion
Pro :
No user manipulation. You need only to project.
Against :
a) If the link broke, you can't re-associate and need to convert to linked body or delete the promoted body, recreate and re-associate all related features.
b) Property weight (born in NX8), calculate only the weight of the added or removed feature.

Thank you...

Using NX 8 and TC9.1

 

[uwam2ie]

@Cubalibre00,
I like you listing pros and cons, but some things run into a wrong direction
to mention
assembly cut:
is a display option on assembly level not runs down in the single part
wave links:
the problem with the wave links and modell reference set can be controlled by customers default
the model referenceset is only a half automation - as user you should mention this and control the existing bodies on the "model" referenceSet-
( turn of timestamp in partnavigator will help, down in the single part)
that will control the weight in the ant column,too - RTFM
always have a clean assembly part - depends on what you are doing -
the problems with controlling wave links are often related to miss understanding how it works /training
the advance licence weight management will help you to bring a defined weight to a empty component as black box
promote body:
can be nice for buttom up workflows like in manufactoring, CAE
I prefer wave linking because the nice relink replace options

 

[cubalibre000]

Hi uwam2ie,
I didn't wrote nothing wrong.
Remember the JCBCAD question : WAVE vs Promote Body for casting that are machined.
I know what JCBCAD project because I worked for a company that was her supplier.

The scope of assembly cut is simulate operation done when components are assembled.
If you need that some operations must placed in the original component, the solution are two : hole series or wave geometry link feature.

For wave link solution DOESN'T EXIST an automatic solution to avoid the 'against' mentioned by me.
What you talk, are setting that need extra operation by the user.

I don't know if you are a designer, a reseller or some else, but I say you that I'm a NX designer. My ass stay height hours sit down on a chair and what I see for height hours it's the NX interface.
NX is a CAD and the CAD is a tool that must serve to the designers.
There are tools in NX that need to be revamped, because designers can't spend time to follow awesome workflow.
If the rule is equal in all CAD package, I will say....OK.
But I assure you, that in-context design or machining part in NX is absolutely unique.
Catia, Pro-E, SolidWorks, Solid Edge work different which has a more simple workflow.


Thank you...

Using NX 8 and TC9.1

 

[uwam2ie]

@cubalibre
I replyed on your list -
for wavelinking on Model referenceSet customers default- very important if you do such sort of stuff.
In nx8.5 its delete body like delete face from ST tools will help make it a lot easier.
Management of multibody is even worse in the other CAD solutions.
There are even other things making more headache to me like color management and materials.
thanxs cuba

 

[cubalibre000]

uwam2ie,
there aren't automatic solution if you use wave method for cast and molded part to avoid the 'against' problems.
If you use wave method, the NX user need to manipulate the result to avoid problems.

There are two environment in NX that are unique in the CAD world and slow the project flow of the designers and need to be revamped because are big part of the time spent to project :
1) In-context part-assembly design
2) Assembly constraints

I started to add ER from NX3 and sincerely I didn't see to develop the right solution.

Thank you...

Using NX 8 and TC9.1

 

[uwam2ie]

cubalibre,
for assembly constraints I agree,
we hope that John will read this

 

[cubalibre000]

John is very important for NX users, because knows some parts of the software, but as all big company like Siemens PLM, who decide are the directors of marketing.

Thank you...

Using NX 8 and TC9.1

 

[JohnRBaker]

Actually it's better if Joe reads this...

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[SiW979]

John

Do you have a scenario where you wouls use promote rather than WAVE? I get the feeling Promote is just an old tool that hasn't/wont be retired?

Cheers

Si


Best regards

Simon NX 7.5.4.4 MP8 and NX 8.5 (native) - TC 8

http://www.jcb.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

When we developed the WAVE capability, there was talk that this would make Promotions obsolete and perhaps it would be best to remove it due to some architectural issues that resulted from decisions made when it was first implemented. However, once we started to look at doing this it was discovered that there really were a few things, most of which have already been commented upon in previous notes by other people, the Promotions still offered a unique solution for which really didn't work as well if attempted using WAVE linking. So instead of 'killing' Promotions, we actually redid it internally to remove those architectural 'weaknesses' without changing it's external behavior and so Promotions are now fully supported along with WAVE as this was also in keeping with our longterm philosophy that it's best to offer multiple solutions since often a user's needs differ from company to company and even task to task, so we've kept them both.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[SiW979]

Makes sense, thanks John.

Best regards

Simon NX 7.5.4.4 MP8 and NX 8.5 (native) - TC 8

http://www.jcb.com