What to Do 15

[buzzp]

So I have been with this company for nearly a year and have some real concerns with how things are done and not done. This company has been around for many years and rarely had an EE on staff. Is one needed here? For sure.
Since starting, I have had to gently argue the need to have a service entrance rated transfer switch (3000A service). I managed to win that argument. However, I am learning they are withholding information from me and the field is being redirected, contradictory to what the code allows and my design (ignore the need to have a good design - that don't factor in here at all). For example, they were told to use THHN instead of THHW in our underground raceways. They were told they don't need to test the GF circuit on the 3000A service entrance (with a 3000A main breaker). The MCC building had water running down the inside, almost a mini river, when it rained real hard. They withheld this information from me. I know there is a lot more going on there than I know. Unfortunately, these sites are rural and almost never have an electrical inspection. To make matters worse, we have two master electricians on site, who should know the code, who are simply doing what they are told even if it means a violation of code.
I have since learned one of our PE's (structural), who stamps the structural drawings and is employed here has a written agreement with the boss that if something happens due to the boss changing the design, that she will not be liable.
I am at a loss as to what to do. I can't just leave this alone. I know there are many other violations of code. Obviously, I am looking for another job. Should I report these violations to the customer? To the AHJ (if I can find one)? What about the PE with a secondary agreement not to be liable in the event of a problem due to the boss changing the design (like leaving out rebar the engineer wanted)?
Thank you.

 

[dik]

Have you contacted a lawyer to discuss the circumstances?

Dik

 

[Sparweb]

...If we are talking sloppy design, or deviations to code which are not "safety critical" ...

Again, the OP said so in the first post: water flowing through the motor control center enclosures during rain storms, presumably because of inadequate waterproofing of the enclosures. Water pooling in these electrical enclosures is a clear and present danger to workers who access them.

STF

 

[rotw]

Well, dont want to reset the debate. But on the other hand who said its easy to move the lines? I read the OP post again and again.

The fact that there was no EE before sounds like there was a big disruption when things started to be viewed from the perspective of an EE.

Some pictures of catastrophic consequences may help to build awareness and sense of urgency. Communication is key. Mamagement will tend to trust the old workers and would be rather suslicious at the "newly" hired person.
Has the OP exhausted ALL the possibilities to work out the problem internally?

Playing the advocate of the devil. Ok?

 

[HCBFlash]

The response by rotw is very accurate. I find your actions to be rather abrupt. It would appear that you are now in a less influential position, and probably unprepared for the most likely outcomes. "This company has been around for many years..." so, obviously they have many contacts and friends, and certainly some in strategic positions. Since you're asking us who to even report this to, you obviously don't. Now you're in a tough spot. You should probably not only move, but change specialities. This stuff becomes part of the public record, and inspectors go to meetings and chat too.

The largest factor is your (previous) employers network of friends. I built a catalog of code violations at a previous employer, and when I quit during a spat, I sent a list of them, thoroughly and properly documented, to the AHJ. The ultimate outcome was a forklift driver being cited for seatbelt violation. About a month later a worker was killed after falling into an unguarded potato peeler. The company? Birdseye. Do you think they had a network of influential friends? It took 2 more fatalities and 6 years to shut down that facility.

Me? I went back to my historically primary line of work, as intended,,, however, one of those fatalities was a man that had become a friend. Such spats can only be measured by who looses most.

 

[dik]

Cass:

Just out of curiosity... were there any of your actions that you would have done differently?

Dik

 

[buzzp]

I have been through round after round with my boss. He just don't care guys. He also sold the customer two 4" runs of conduit for future equipment that he knows can never be used because the LB is buried in other conduit - won't access unless rip out mass conduit in order to pull the cable. The GF is a real concern. First they took a 3R box, cut holes in the side to attach some cam-lock connectors. This 'box' just happens to be a 3000A transfer switch sitting outside. They wouldn't build a roof over it either. Won't tell me how they assembled it, etc. In fact, I haven't been invited back to the site for months - clearly because they don't want me to see all the issues. I am very confident when I say the grounding/bonding is probably incomplete as well. There is way more here than meets the eye.

How should I let the cat on the bag to the customer while being mindful of whistleblowing laws?

 

[dik]

For fear of beating a dead horse... you have to make it clear to your boss that what has been constructed is dangerous and life threatening. Explain to him why it is not acceptable or why it is dangerous.

Not only can you not endorse it, but also you are obligated by law and by professional conduct to report it to the AHJ, not your client. Make sure you're correct. In any event, this can have long term career implications. As I noted, you may want to consult with a lawyer. I've over 45 years of experience, and, I'd get some quick legal advice... it may cost a couple of hundred for a 'quick chat'.

He has to provide a redesign that is safe; try to keep it internal if possible.

Dik

 

[lacajun]

If I were you, and I'm not, I would go to the owners of the company, with the laws and code of conduct in hand, to explain the situation and your responsibilities to the public and all concerned parties. Explain that if they choose to not correct the problems, then you will need to approach the Client and other authorities about said code violations. Said authorities are all relevant inspectors, fire marshals, the local OSHA office, and if you are a PE, it may be wise to alert the board in your state.

One time mistakes are easier to work with. Habitual wrongdoing is another matter completely.

Read your state's laws and code of conduct first, think about how they relate to your situation, and decide on a course of action. Doing right is often hard but right needs to happen.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:

http://nspe-co.org/events.php

 

[dik]

Lacajun... yup... try to keep it internal if possible and let employer know that they or the engineer has no other option if the work is not remedied.

Dik

 

[buzzp]

This companies reputation follows them. I don't know that they have ever had one repeat customer. They could know everybody in town but it still wouldn't change my mind on what to do - it shouldn't change anyones.

Yes, me coming in caused mass disruptions in the norm. Not sure how it wouldn't here given all the issues they have. I even informed them slowly about these issues over the last year. Not sure about 'abrupt actions' given the seriousness of the GF testing alone.

I did send some pictures of what can happen in the event of a ground fault on more than one occasion. I was told to 'leave it alone'.

I will try to let everyone know when the cat is out of the bag. I fully expect to get fired if they find out I had anything to do with reporting this. I won't be talking to them about it any more. It is a fruitless effort and only raises more eye brows. As far as other projects, if we get an inspection on this one, he may think twice about cutting so many corners on the other ones. That is my hope.

 

[lacajun]

buzzp, to me, it is not a good idea to work covertly against an employer. If you run into this again, you would be wise to consider the path of informing your employer about problems and your responsibilities as a PE, assuming you are one, with the laws and code of conduct in hand. If they choose to overlook that, then it is best to inform them that, as a PE, you have to report the problems to the Owners and other authorities. It is very hard to do but it is the right thing to do. It demonstrates strength of character and integrity.

If an investigation is launched, I would be very surprised if you are not revealed for various and sundry reasons. When one is accused, they generally want to know their accuser. I believe they have a right to know. No one likes being blindsided whether they are right or wrong.

Good luck.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:

http://nspe-co.org/events.php

 

[buzzp]

I agree, I don't like doing things covertly. However, there is no choice until I make a final decision as to how to proceed, anonymously or not. Accusations are one thing, being able to visible see issues and not being able to produce test records, is another. One can accuse someone of something but without factual evidence, it is hard to prove. Everything I have 'accused' them of is substantiated by mere observation or requesting test records that don't exist. My integrity is what makes me tick and is why I am having such a problem letting this go.

 

[Sparweb]

I hope circumstances allow you to act sooner than later. If no further substantiating evidence will come your way, then waiting just prolongs the risk of injury due to the problems you've observed.
In fact, the longer you remain while in knowledge of the problem makes you appear more to accept them. Even if you are not a member of the local PE organization, you should be able to contact them for advice before you make a specific report.

STF

 

[lacajun]

Then document, document, document especially if you are a PE. Never jeopardize your license or the safety of others over mistakes, deliberate or not, that others make. Written records hold up in court. If they're to provide test records and don't have them, that is relevant, too. Keep records of your requests, which I'm sure you've done. Put everything into a timeline to help others, e.g., attorneys, understand your steps.


Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:

http://nspe-co.org/events.php

 

[dik]

...and being aware of a potential life threatening problem, and doing nothing about it, could put you in the 'soup' if anything happened.

Dik

 

[rotw]

You have exposed several technical observations and risks on safety. Understood.

BUT...

Could you pick just ONLY ONE / MOST SEVERE technical issue (not only a concern but a case of non conformity) which according to you could have impact on safety, and then EXPAND on this a little bit in here, i.e. in this thread?.

In a nutshell:
Explain what is the background of the issue, what equipment is concerned, indicate which code/standard or design practice is applicable, the specific requirement(s) of the code, and then explain specifically the situation of non compliance?

 

[Sparweb]

Hi Rotw,
Are you sure we should be asking the OP to divulge that much information? The more specifically we get involved, the more specific our advice, direction, and comments become, until we find ourselves debating trivial issues and questioning the OP's judgement. I would rather stay focused on the OP's ethical problem, and leave the judgement of hazards to the OP, since there seems to be no uncertainty (to the OP) that a danger does exist.

Furthermore, would you advocate reporting a safety problem to the media instead of to your professional engineering regulatory body?

STF

 

[dik]

Sparweb... agreed, and I think we have provided the OP with a fairly clear idea of how he should proceed. I can think of nothing that could be added.

Dik

 

[Rabbit12]

I understand what rotw is trying to say...just would like some clarification on why the issues he brought up are bad. Me bring structural I don't really understand electrical all that well so when the OP says they used THHN instead of THHW in underground raceways I don't know what that means. A little explanation on what that means and what the ramifications are if the wrong material is used would be interesting to me.

Same thing with testing the 3000 amp service. What could happen if they don't?

I don't need minute details but am interested in a little more detailed explanation.

 

[btrueblood]

THHN wire is rated for use in industrial raceways in dry service, THWN is rated for wet service. A lot of raceway wire is sold as "dual-cert"*, thus rotw's concerns (ie. the wire may be suitable). But I don't know of anyone who would think that flowing water in an electrical conduit is ok.

*for instance:

http://www.southwire.com/products/oem-thhn-thwn-twn75-t90.htm