Women Men Work Place Inequities 13

[kontiki99]

I favor equal opportunity non-discriminatory work place practices. I’m fine with breast feeding rooms. I’m happy to see people going off and having babies.

But, I do believe our culture over looks many bizarre inequities where men are not afforded the same flexibilities extended to women.

I want to highlight a couple, any body know of more?


Minor Issue #1 –

Foot wear at work.

I’m a male engineer. I wear shoes to work every day.

I see women wearing all manner of flip flop (any shoe that makes a flip-flip sound when you walk), bedroom slippers, open toed things, plus some of the weirdest heel geometries I have ever seem.

I’d like to come in open toed flip flops or maybe bedroom slippers, but I’d really be dressed unprofessionally.



Minor Issue #2 -

As a male I cannot post photos of attractive women in swim suits in my cube without the fear of someone claiming that it’s inappropriate.

At a previous job, one of the IT managers apparently did most of his recruiting down the gold club or something because all of the people in his department had great figures and tended to dress somewhat provocatively.

They wall papered their cube with photos of them selves and their friends at pool parties and such. It was just fine.

If I had borrowed some of those photos and put them in my cube I’d have definitely been reprimanded.

My point -

I learned in the Marine Corps that there is always the 10 % group of people that just don’t cut it. The same goes for both genders.

I actually witnessed this first hand as a Civil Service engineer (20 yrs later) while on a shake down cruise on one of our fighting love boats 20.

I’d like to see female professionalism in the workplace enforced as uniformly for women as it is for men.

 

[lostsailor]

maybe it's just me....I think people need to relax, mind their own business, and focus on the work. I don't give the proverbial rat's patootie what people wear to work, hang on the walls, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Professionalism becomes evident in the end product/service, that's what matters.
Regards,
RLS

 

[kchayfie]

I have, in the past, been reprimanded for wearing a sleeveless t-shirt on site. The site manager's reasoning was that whilst I looked suitably professional due to the style of the t-shirt and the fact I was wearing it with a suit, the kinds of sleeveless t-shirts the guys on site would wear were too scruffy so sleeveless was subject to blanket ban. So I guess it isn't entirely unbalanced.

But then I am in the office today and away from all clients and so I've elected to wear flip-flops. So sometimes we can get away with these things.

 

[TheRaptor]

After 5 full days of formals, when I wore 3/4ths to the office on a Saturday, my roommate wanted to know if I was planning to go to the office or the beach.

The canteens are usually filled between 1 and 1:30 because thats when 1 gets to c the 'hot girls' wearing tank tops, skirts, sleeveless, 3/4ths etc.

I guess its just me who is not supposed to wear casuals for work!!!!!

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Lostsailor- Star for you.

I think we're getting too hung up on whether people dress professionally when it is far more important whether they act professionally.

I had a coworker and a previous job that always wore a suit...and acted like a frat boy at mardi gras.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

I got kicked out of the breastfeeding room.

 

[waskillywabbit]

It still baffles me how the rational and logical can still have hope that two things that are different can ever be equal.

Whether one likes to conform or not, for most people, perception IS reality.



Brian

 

[Senselessticker]

When it comes to how women dress in the workplace...I'm all for the flip flops, tank tops, capri pants, whatever...In case the rest of the world hasn't noticed...women DO use their looks, low cut shirts, and tight pants to get attention and advance their professional career. It works. And I'm all for it! (men also do the same unless your a complete nerd) For all the men out there....would you seriously rather the women dress conservatively? I really find that hard to believe....

 

[DaveVikingPE]

If I came to work in a tank top and capri pants they'd have me locked up.

 

[kontiki99]

Senselessticker,

I don’t think I can objectively evaluate your comments.

I have a half sister. Her thing is very provocative dress and appearance, bizarre diets and fanatic exercise. She also has a Mechanical Engineering degree. She attended two very good schools at huge expense to her parents.

She worked a brief stints as an Engineer, but eventually settled into a carrier as a waitress and selling vitamins at the mall.

Most of the family including myself considered her dress extremely tacky. We mentioned it to her. She said she thought it was attractive and her right to put her best side forward. She also felt it was an asset she could leverage in the workplace. I truly felt she looked like a street walker. I never approach women that dress like she does. I would have guessed that men expressing interest in her had issues or a very narrow focus.

During her engineering periods she filed against at least one coworker for sexual harassment, maybe more. In the end I wondered if she found herself unemployable and maybe blacklisted because of how she handled things in the office.

Even when she’s visited me. She would tell me how she met some guy in Borders Books that was truly a lover of romantic literature and how she got his number. I could only look ate her in her “outfit” dressed like I don’t know what and wonder how her mind worked.

Even though we using the same terms and words to describe these things. Her application of social décor is obviously way out of phase with mine.

also, What are capri pants?

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Capri pants:

http://flakmag.com/misc/capri.html

"During her engineering periods she filed against at least one coworker for sexual harassment, maybe more."


What's important is if she was successful. Was she?

 

[Senselessticker]

Not all women who dress provocatively are sociopathic/borderline.

 

[kontiki99]

I only know what she volunteers to tell me. She is vey evasive when asked for details.

As a rule I just listen quietly and refrain from asking any questions. It makes family relations easier.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

"Not all women who dress provocatively are sociopathic/borderline."

Agreed. But they are provocative.

 

[Quantum50]

"She worked a brief stints as an Engineer, but eventually settled into a carrier as a waitress and selling vitamins at the mall."

Carriers have waitresses?!? I knew they were big, but.....

;-)

 

[kontiki99]

As I have gone through life meeting people in various situations, I try to associate characteristics about them with how I remember they performed or treated me.

Many characteristics have no value as predictors at all. Some only have minor statistical significance. Some characteristics are significant.

That’s not to say that I stereotype or classify based on appearance. I do know that I can manage many affairs in a manner that gives more or less control to some one else.

Visual characteristics and experience are really the only risk management tools we really have.

Simple safety examples:

An encounter with a fidgety, rapidly talking panhandler with dilated pupils (possibly be extra cautious not to say anything inflammatory).

A large group of people dressed in gang colors on a corner on a dark night (possibly choose another route because of appearance).

Do I want someone that dresses like a TV flirt representing the company in serious negotiations for a product or services?

This may be a somewhat unrelated example:

There was an incident in my own office where I decided not to let a particular contractor continue handling some technical negotiations for us. I don’t consider the word “dude” to be a business greeting. He also didn’t have a background in the technical area. I might have overlooked the lack of technical expertise if he had handled himself better professionally (in this case the other company is providing the technical expertise).

I mentioned to him that I viewed his way to familiar style somewhat inappropriate. He actually argued with me, insisting that’s his style. His “style” is also not how I interpret the company handbook.

I don’t make the personnel decisions, someone else handles that. I do know I won’t let him handle that particular project any more. All he gets is technical writing work from me now.

Bottom line;

It’s a matter of choosing what group you want to affiliate yourself with, visually or other wise.

 

[Tomfh]

I'm with lostsailor 100%.

It's beyond me why so many people get hung up over things like attire.

 

[kontiki99]

Isn't insisting that people should be allowed to wear blue jeans at work just another an attire hang up?

It wasn’t always that way. The blue jeans thing is the result of some very successful television marketing.

There is nothing more frustrating than having serious discussions over pay and benefits sidetracked buy a group of fashion sensitive people that insist permission to wear jeans at work is somehow a significant benefit. It’s just fashion consciousness.

I personally don’t believe blue jeans are comfortable anyway. As I have aged, and the clearances in certain areas of my body have tightened up, I don’t want a 3/16 inch seam of denim (with rivets) anywhere.

I can find serviceable Dockers and the like on sale in thrift shops and e-bay wholesale lots for sometimes as low a $5 a pair. They fit in well enough with daily business décor for life in the hive, (not necessarily for meeting vendors or customers). If I get them slimed while looking at something on an airplane, I just toss them.

 

[melone]

Does everyone agree there are inappropriate styles of dress for work? For example, it is probably not a good idea to come to work in your skimpiest swimwear (speedo's for men, or a thong, string bikini for women).

Remember, just because you are comfortable strolling around in your skivies, doesn't mean that everyone else is so open-minded. While at work, aren't you are supposed to portray the company image, not your own?

 

[lostsailor]

Personally, the company image means nothing to me. I perform a service that my employer pays for. In the event that they feel the relationship is no longer beneficial to them they are free to terminate it and vice versa. I no longer live to work, I work to live. Having been in the workplace for just over twenty years I've come to realize that MY interests are more important than my employers. My only regret is not having learned that lesson sooner.
Regards,
RLS