That is a really tough question since it is quite rare to send an entry-level engineer to any foreign country. The country has a real obligation to make sure that jobs like "engineer" are offered to locals and entry-level jobs are filled from local universities until that population is exhausted. When I went to Indonesia for a consulting trip earlier this year I had to provide copies of my diplomas, examples of publications, my CV, and have several references from outside and inside the country before the government would send the fax that authorized issuing me a visa.
At best if you could get a work permit I would expect to pay you the same that an entry-level Indonesian engineer would be paid which is closer to $20k than $50k.
20k seems high for an indonesian job, but you know more about it than I do.
Partly it depends on the placement, if it is a short term (3-12 months) affair then I'd expect domestic USAn pay PLUS some sort of expenses and air fares and so on.
Longer term, most ex pats in SE Asia still command a premium over the locals.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
I'm an Indonesian working in the US. Bigtom, it really depends on what type of job it is. If you are hired here and they want you to go to indonesia, then I would expect an american salary (40 K). A lot of foreign employee working there sometime also get a house / apartment provided by the company. You might also get a driver. So it really depends on what they provide.
Here is what you need to know about indonesia:
1. Average new engineer salary there is around 3-4 millions rupiah/month = $400/month So your dollar worths a lot over there. Even if you get 20 K, you will live like a king because everything is very cheap.
2. Although everything is cheap, cars and houses arent that cheap. The cars for example, if you buy imported cars, they will tagged you 200 % import tax. So a corolla there will probably cost you $45k compared to $15k in the US. They do have a lot of local cars manufctured there with foreign engines and parts that cost a lot less.
3. Most medium income or higher have at least 1 servant. They live in your house. They will clean, cook, etc. for about $50/month. WOw lol.
4. Driver will probably make $75/month but they dont live with you.
5. Minimum income workers that work at factories probably make about $2 - $3/day and they dont even get food with that.
6. Combo meal at McDonald will probably cost you $1. McDonald is considered expensive so only medium income people can afford it.
7. House rent is a lot cheaper compared to how much the property cost.
8. Yes, there are some radical islamic groups but really. It is not that many. People over there are friendly. Just the news make it all a big deal and labeled indonesia as a country full of terrorist. Really, when we had the oklahoma bombing, can we say the US is not safe? You cannot compare Indonesia to middle eastern countries.
9. Very americanized in big cities.
10. Dont forget to visit Bali while you are there.
Sorry, this is a pretty long post. I just thought you might want to know these things.
There is lots to consider besides the base salary number.
Will you be paid from the US, or through a local division? That difference will probably make a big difference on your fully-burdened rate.
You'll need to figure the tax implications, both US and Indonesian. 401(k)?
You'll need to figure the value of the benefit package you would get in the US, and if equivalent benefits are available there, how much they cost, etc. Having insurance from a US carrier will do you no good.
Will you get a couple of trips back home paid for, and will one or both countries count that as income?
BigTom:
The question of the money is one of the least important. The most important one is:
Are you prepared for a cultural shock?
Read something about Indonesian culture (not in the tourism office) and see if you can fit in it.
There is a very interesting study about cultural differences done by Hofstede (a Dutch teacher). He studied several countries in around 7 cultural characteristics. Make a google with "Hofstede" "cross-culture study" and you might find it.
I am expat (not in Indonesia) and I felt that it is quite accurate in defining both home country as my expat country. I really don't know if it has for Indonesia but it worth a try.
And learn you first indonesian bahasa: "Bir digin, terimahkasi" (Cold beer, thank you)
COEngineer can correct my spelling.
Good luck.
There's more to this than just money. Will the position allow you to get more experience than you would get back home in the same time? If so, look upon this as an opportunity to accelerate your careeer progress.
You don't say how old you are or if you have dependents but, the opportunity to go and work and live in a country like Indonesia probably won't come around too often and, if you are young and single (or relatively so)then this might be one of the few times in your life when you can do this without having to worry about your wife's career or your children's schooling.
Indonesia is a big place and really interesting in itself, as well as being not too far from other interesting places like Oz, Malaysia and China so you just might be able to factor in visits to these places during your stay in Indonesia.
You also need some sort of exit plan, written into your contract, which MUST be with the company in your home country that wants to send you there. Don't sign up to a deal with an Indonesian company - if there are problems, you have to work the issue with them and as a foreigner, it could be difficult. Just in case things don't work out, the deal should include travel to back your home and good medical cover.
Don't buy into the local salary thing unless there is something really atractive about the position. If they want to pay a local engineers salary, then they should get a local engineer.
If its a serious proposition, you could ask for an initial visit of say 2 weeks, to make sure that you like to place and get on with the people
You have not mentioned where in Indonesia you are going to. The west tip of indonesia (aceh, where the tsunami was) to east tip (irian jaya) is like LA to NY. If you are not going to be in Jakarta, or Surabaya, it will be a BIG culture shock. Unless you will work for a mining company, they will have a big complex full of expats.
MedicineEng, it is "Bir dingin, terima kasih" haha.
Not familiar with Indonesia in particular
Expating mining - is generally what ever you can negotiate and how bad they want you. The crappier the location the better the deal.
The base salary is typically slightly better than home base (say US). All the benefits make up the difference
Overseas allowance
End of contract bonuses
Car allowances
Flights
Upset Allowance
COLA cost of living adjustments
Free housing/ accomodation
Each country is different but some offer major benefits of reduced tax which can make a big difference. One to check out.
Expating compensates with money for the many negatives as mentioned in several posts above.
The hardest I see are Family sacrifices - both if your family is with you, or back home (single status). Not for everyone.
Also as above, I find it very strange that they (immigration) allow an entry level guy to expat unless under some form of an exchange programme
Check the tax situation, the US government may still consider you a resident for tax purposes, and therefore would also want their cut from your indonesian pay.
That aside, you may be better off financially even with a lower salary since if all your expenses are paid then your salary goes straight in the bank.
Also I wouldnt do this just to get a job. If this is the case then I would lay bets that you will be back in 3 to 6 months. You need to have a bit of a travellers attitude about it and be interested in experiencing the country as well, otherwise the negatives will far outweigh the benefits.
It has been mentioned above, but as far as taxes - you are always responsible for US taxes (you might qualify for the exclusion if you are out of the country 330 of 365 days in a calendar year), but you are responsbile for yearly filing and paying based on your worldwide income (less any exclusions or foreign tax credits).
What you will want to do is have the company responsible for paying your local taxes and preparing the local income tax returns, and providing you with the proof of payment.
Greg Lamberson, BS, MBA
Consultant - Upstream Energy
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