24-level building tower fire in West London 33

[Ingenuity]

Link

Looks like the building is fully engulfed. Residents trapped in the upper levels.

40 engine and 200 firefighter response.

 

[berkshire]

Latest news ,
None of the residents on the top 3 floors survived.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/81...er-west-estate-police-firefighters-blaze-huge

Looking at this on TV late last night, it looked as though there were no sprinklers in the building , or they had been overwhelmed. An eye witness Mr. Samuels added flames cascaded up the newly refurbished cladding on the outside of the building
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[hokie66]

One report says the fire started as an electrical fire, a refrigerator. I had one experience with that sort of fire. The icemaker in our fridge started to smoke and smolder. No great damage done. Just had to repaint the kitchen. No icemakers in our house since that happened.

There must be a lot of companies who have gotten into manufacturing these aluminum faced cladding panels, so you can't go by brand names. That being said, the three brand names which have been mentioned in Australia are Alucobond, Alucobest, and Alubond. The similarity of these brands may be deliberately chosen to confuse. The Chinese made product which is reported to have contributed to the fires in the UAE and Melbourne is Alucobest.

 

[msquared48]

Aluminum, huh?

Interesting thought here, and you mix this with a polymer?

Chemical composition of thermite
The process employs an exothermic reaction of a thermite composition to heat the metal, and requires no external source of heat or current. The chemical reaction that produces the heat is an aluminothermic reaction between aluminium powder and a metal oxide.

What are they thinking?

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[hokie66]

I don't think there is any aluminum powder in the products. Aluminum sheet as the external face, with various substrates, depending on the manufacturer.

 

[berkshire]

I used to make paneling from this type of product Reynobond and Lucabond Both of these had fire retardant mixed into the core and would not support combustion.
I understand that there are some knock off companies that make this product with just a polyethylene core and no fire retardant.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[hokie66]

By "knock off companies", I read "Chinese companies". Maybe the stuff comes from somewhere else as well, but it definitely comes from China.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4243787.htm

 

[msquared48]

"Reynobond and Lucabond"

Bonded Reynolds Aluminum and Lucite?

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[berkshire]

Msquared48,
Reynobond, ACM panels made by Reynolds Aluminum co.
Somehow an A fell off when I was typing this , that should be Alucabond . they were the originators of this kind of ACM panel, Reynolds came in later.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[hokie66]

I think it is Alucobond, made by a company called 3AComposite, which is a Swiss company, I believe. They make the product with both a polyethylene core and a fireproof core, so you would have to be careful to get the right one. I think the polyethylene core product is intended only for low rise construction.

Edit: I didn't mean to imply that Alucobond is the product on the building in London. Was just correcting the spelling of berkshire's post.

 

[3DDave]

"At this time, we are not aware of any link between the fire and the exterior cladding to the tower.”

Baghdad Bob is back.

I wonder what amplification there is by putting an IR reflector in close proximity to fuel.

 

[wannabeSE]

Alucobond has some information on ACM fire performance and US building code requirements at

https://www.alucobondusa.com/blog/t...formance-on-high-rise-buildings/#.WUHdiGxK02w

 

[Ingenuity]

The typical residential floor has (had!) 4 x 2-bedroom apartments and 2 x 1-bedroom apartments for a total of 120 units over 20 floors.

One exit fire-stair only that served the residential floors.

A new exit stair was added recently to serve L1 through L4 community-type common areas.

 

[hokie66]

No sprinkler system, only one exit, flammable cladding, inaudible fire alarms, instructions to remain in place, inability of fire fighters to access upper levels. Maybe I left something out, but sounds like a classic definition of fire trap.

 

[Ingenuity]

Sadly, that is the indeed the truth, hokie66.


The original 1970's concrete framing and existing precast concrete facade appeared to perform well for the duration of the inferno.


2012 Planning and Permit drawings from The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea website: Link

Existing 1970's facade was horizontal STRUCTURAL perimeter precast spandrels and precast non-structural triangular-shaped column panels:

The existing tower has a concrete structural frame with precast concrete panels forming the external cladding to the residential floors.

For the upper 20 storeys precast concrete cladding has been used: one panel type serves as a structural spandrel under the
windows (horizontal) and the other is a decorative facing to the triangular pilasters, each a full storey height of 2.6m (vertical).

 

[hokie66]

Good find, Ingenuity. It does look like the concrete building and precast facade elements performed well, but they weren't pretty, and didn't insulate well. And the windows leaked, so the facade refurbishment was necessary.

According to those documents, there was to be 150mm of Celotex FR5000 insulation on the spandrels, and they specified a composite zinc panel over the insulation, not aluminum. Will be interesting to see a report, which I imagine will be made public in due course.

 

[dik]

If the building codes allow for that type of floor plan, they are totally wrong and should be changed.

Dik

 

[dik]

From the BBC, "Prime Minister Theresa May has ordered a full public inquiry into the fire that engulfed a west London block of flats, killing at least 17 people.

That figure is expected to rise, as fire chiefs have said they do not expect to find any more survivors in the burnt-out Grenfell Tower, in north Kensington."

Added: Any British engineers I've met have been exceptional and they should do an incredibly detailed study. Hopefully this will be released to the public; there's government involvement, and it or portions of it may not be released. The report may not be done in a timely fashion.

Dik

 

[IRstuff]

Likely, most such structures are grandfathered against current code requirements.
We had that situation when we installed solar panels on the roof, and the city demanded that we install CO monitors per latest code inside.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[dik]

When it comes to life safety issues, most grandfathering fails. This would have been a significant renovation. I suspect someone 'slipped up'.

Dik

 

[LittleInch]

There is a clear acknowledgement from building engineers and government that the design of many of the 4,000 or maybe it's 40,000 tower blocks is deficient and risks from fires and general aging, especially of concrete structures built 40, 50 or 60 years ago is increasing. However the sheer cost of replacing all these blocks and the number of people still living in them makes the problem too big to fix.

To be fair to the designers, the system has worked fairly well until now. Until they started cladding the outside of the buildings in what now appears to be wholly unsuitable material, the reality was that fires could be contained in one or two locations for a significant period and that spreading of the fires was slow and left time to evacuate people if required or extinguish the fire.

The Cladding issue is clearly the game changer and the fire and building regulations in the UK appear not to have kept up to pace with the materials being used and the desire to insulate properties (generally a good idea) has taken precedence over fire safety.

Thankfully fires in general and apartment buildings are now relatively rare, but clearly this will turn out to be a case where the design envelope was stretched too tight and has now failed with fatal consequences and ruined lives for many of the survivors.

In the mean time if I lived in one of these blocks I would be stocking up on smoke hoods for my family....


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