A coming engineering shortage ? ---- Who agrees ? 86

[MJCronin]

A recent article says that there will be an acute shortage ... particularly in the electrical field !!!

http://www.csemag.com/single-articl...hortage/7b350ef419c231a9f82abc6c8bd8fac4.html

Who agrees ???

Who strongly disagrees ???

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[ScottyUK]

tunalover makes a good point.

How often does a desperately stretched engineering team feel forced to settle for the least-bad candidate on the basis that any help is better than no help? I've done it - not through choice, but when faced with a shrinking pool of talent to recruit from and a ever-growing backlog of work sometimes you reluctantly accept that an imperfectly filled position is better than an empty seat.

 

[Careful34]

@ ScottyUK - Does your company have no on-boarding or training procedures? Why would you wait so long for the "perfect" candidate instead of taking the best presented and improving them?

 

[cranky108]

We at least don't take the best presented candidate, and will wait for a candidate who is acceptable (but not perfect). The problem is the best candidate is not always a trainable fit.
Some that apply simply don't even have a engineering background.

Now mind you I am in the US, and I believe ScottyUK is not. But it is interesting that both of us are in the same industry, and have the same problems, although in different conntries.

The other issue we have is that, at least here, is that it is difficult to bring in someone from another country because of the background check requirements for many of the engineering positions.
And that maybe one of the reasons why their is a shortage in the power industry.

 

[ScottyUK]

Careful34,

When the best-presented candidate to pick from is still only 30% of what you're looking for, do you still take them and train them? I'm an engineer, not an alchemist, even though sometimes it feels like I'm expected to turn lead into gold.

cranky,

I agree, there's a global shortage of good, experienced power engineers. In the UK the chance to start training the kids with real potential was missed twenty, thirty years ago. They've entered other industries and made good careers for themselves, but in that time they've gained few of the technical skills we need, and it is impossible to set the clock back to repair the damage done to the industry years ago. The true extent of the damage has only started to show in more recent times, too little and too late.

 

[spraytechnology]

cranky and scotty

Since the markets are saturated with candidates good and not so good, frankly if you have a need and you really want to recruit someone you will. I know and have seen it before jobs get advertised and go on unfilled, mainly with the large entities, for years. Nevertheless nowadays have companies advertising for openings is another PR brands promotion exercise.

 

[cranky108]

Actually we are doing a little better. We will take a new grad over some of the unqualified applicants, and we have started some intern programs. But most of those new grand and intern's come from a local university which does not have a power program. They are electrical engineers, just with no power background. Internal training is required.

I also have a coworker who is teaching two power classes at the local university, who keeps an eye out for potential hires.

On the other hand, we are small as far as utilities go, but we also have other groups that do things other than electric, so we have a number of civil, chemical, mechanical, and industrial engineers that can fill in some of what was once looked at as electric roles (planning, resources, project management etc.)

We also use retired people for short term fill in's, and consultants.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

Cranky,

What do you mean passing on the best presentec candidate?

 

[cranky108]

I said 'best presented candidate'. Many times the applicants that we get for a job are all below the acceptable lower limits for the job. So we don't hire any of them.

 

[Tunalover]

Probably what you see are the jobs /description/ads by recruiting agencies. Often the recruting agents 'emself are clueless as what the role and skills are all about as most are not technical people to start with.

No hiring manager in his right mind would hire a recruiter to run "open loop" like that. These job descriptions I see look like "wish lists" written by hiring managers. Are these managers "shooting for the moon" and either good people pass the job by or they get flooded with applicants that know they don't meet the requirements but are just hoping for the best anyway?

My question is who succeeds more, the guy who reads the description and moves on when he sees a "must have" he doesn't have or one of the many who apply anyway? Is there an unwritten rule somewhere that says that hiring managers EXPECT no one will meet all their requirements? If that's the case then I've been playing the game wrong and missed out on many opportunities because I'm honest and believe the hiring managers are really stating their needs!


ElectroMechanical Product Development
(aka Electronic Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993

 

[MikeHalloran]

I've been playing the game wrong, too, according to my wife.
Like you, I'm trying to be honest, and not waste anyone's time, and will not bother to apply if I don't have a 'must have'.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[spraytechnology]

It is only the unsuccessful applicant wasting time, and if applying for many positions wasting lots of time.

Recruiter gets his cut one way or the other the moment he finds a candidate well packaged for the client and the hiring manager is on company time.....

 

[GregLocock]

I got a very good job even though I didn't meet all the bullet pointed requirements in the ad. My application letter covered each bullet point and demonstrated where I met the requirement or how I intended to meet it in the future. Pretty standard stuff really.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[cranky108]

Maybe the difference is 1. you are applying for a specific job. 2. you apply to a company for a job.
If you want a specific job, you should meet most of the requirements.
If you want a job, you should meet at least one requirement the company needs.

The problem is often the manager knows what he wants, but has no information of the people market. (Knowing they won't find everything they want).
The personal department knows how to hire in the craft area, but not in the engineering area. (Believing there are 100's of people who qualify for the job).
So the two seem to find a way through the weeds.(With only a few who might qualify, but will not be everything they want).
It's always a tight engineering market.

Few people look for a great job, most look for a great place to live. So why do managers tell you how great a place it is to work, and so little about the community?

 

[spraytechnology]

found this on net:....correct and flawed at the same time in my view

"The traditional concept of the profession (the concept that is undergoing change) provides an interesting contrast to the concept of the profit-maximizing business firm. In the business model, the goal is profit maximization in a competitive environment that operates in a basically Darwinian fashion (survival of the fittest); risk is pervasive and both extraordinary profits and devastating losses are real possibilities. Employment and leadership in such an environment attract many and repel many. The people it attracts tend to be aggressive and daring. The ones it repel tend to be cautious and thoughtful.

In the traditional professional model, risk both upside and downside is trimmed by a combination of regulation and ethics both aimed at muting competition. With muted competition the lawyer or doctor can realistically aspire to a safe upper-middle-class income, but he is unlikely to become wealthy. The result, in combination with requiring postgraduate education and qualifying exams for entry into the profession and subjecting members of it to professional discipline, is to attract a type of person quite different from the entrepreneurial type—the latter a type exemplified by such extraordinarily successful college drop-outs as Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Mark Zuckerberg. The professional model attracts a more studious, intellectual, risk-averse type of person.

Why does society value such persons and create a comfortable niche for them? The answer is that some goods and services involve a degree of complexity that makes it very difficult for consumers to evaluate the quality of the goods and services. Legal services and medical treatment are important examples. Both involve considerable uncertainty (even the best lawyer loses some cases, even the best doctor fails to cure some patients). When a consumer is unable to determine the quality of a product or service, the provider has to be regulated, either directly as in the case of the regulation of the drug industry by the Food and Drug Administration or indirectly as in the professional model, in which the conditions for becoming a member of a profession encourage self-selection by persons likely to be trustworthy, responsible, and ethical because less inclined to cut corners in order to make a killing.

The professional model in law began to wane in the 1970s, with the beginning of the deregulation movement, which loosened restrictions on competition in legal services. The trend continued in subsequent decades, and was marked by an increased spread in earnings within law firms, an increased dispersion in the size of law firms, and increased turnover—in particular, the tendency of successful lawyers to move from firm to firm (taking their clients with them) in quest of higher incomes. Today, law firms closely resemble business firms. I am speaking mainly of law firms that handle corporate business, not of criminal or tort lawyers, who tend to practice by themselves or in small firms."

I fully agree with the idea that engineering consulting has and will continue to evolve from the professional to the business model. The interesting point that Posner raises is, "The professional model attracts a more studious, intellectual, risk-adverse type of person." It will be interesting to see how this type of person changes in the new business model - - with a central focus on profit-maximizing activities in unregulated (or under-regulated) competitive markets. Greater movement toward the business model produces an environment of increased risk. Consulting engineers may not want just a comfortable upper-middle-class income in the future; they may want to be rich; and one reason is the increased risk they face.

 

[CWB1]

If you want a specific job, you should meet most of the requirements.
If you want a job, you should meet at least one requirement the company needs.

I don't believe I've ever had so much as a phone screen for a position that I didnt meet every requirement and at least several of the preferred qualifications. I've also had recruiters tell me many times both as a job candidate and as a hiring manager that neither they nor their system are allowed to pass along candidates who do not meet every requirement, often this results in positions going unfilled for years.

 

[cranky108]

I have seen people who just want a job apply for every position possible. Likely their skills don't match everyone of those jobs.

 

[spraytechnology]

Like in any business cut out the middlemen and everyone will be better off.
Hiring managers are likely to get what they are looking for, and yes they need to invest their own time and candidates get closer to their dream job.

 

[3DDave]

Major corporations use screening software - if there is anything in the job description that is not matched on the resume, the software will chuck it and no one will see it. Similarly, if it gets to Joel Spolsky's desk and there is any mismatch, it hits the waste can (see Joel Spolsky's article on hiring and why he is intolerant of people who won't follow directions before he hires them as indicator they won't after he does.)

 

[MikeHalloran]

From my brief time on the hiring side perspective:

One of my adventures was with a manufacturing company. We had a modest number of CNC machine tools, and advertised for experienced help.

A really nice guy showed up, with no applicable experience, but a really strong Positive Mental Attitude, a photographic portfolio, a sweet smile, and a sad story about how badly he needed the job. ISTR he was a musician, and maybe a luthier too, but he didn't have enough experience with power tools of any sort to be scared of them.

The shop boss tried him in four jobs; in each, he listened to a briefing, indicated understanding, started off strong, then screwed up and damaged the machine or himself. He lasted most of a month. We were sad to say goodbye, but we feared the next personal injury would be a really bad one. He had not grown up with high forces and stored energy anywhere in his environment, and was not learning to appreciate the risks in ours, despite instruction.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[spraytechnology]

Lately I ve notice recruiting agencies seeking many project controls professionals. (often engineers) . But what surprised me was the stated salaries that seem to be way over generous than what I would say market bears. Just curious if this is a new strategy to canvas resumes with the attractive tag price? By the way I am in Australia.