AA jet and Military helicopter collide over Potomac 7

Reagan National Airport crash: Military Black Hawk helicopter collides midair with American Airlines jet

An Army Black Hawk helicopter collided midair with an American Airlines flight from Wichita, Kansas, at Reagan National Airport on Wednesday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I agree I am learning lots about the radar limitations from the thread.

Thankyou.

I really don't know how easy it is to read the charts with nvg on.

Earlier there was a chart with a not above 400 on it in a brown colour I think.

 

[Garbage1]

I have learned a lot too from this thread too. Thank Y'all.

And we haven't even gotten into Phased Array Radars vs Dish Radars!

As they say........ Phased Arrays Rule, Dishes Drool. . But cost difference is enormous, and different roles dictates need for multiple radar systems.
Power is also issue in urban settings.


I agree we really don't know which sensor data is most inaccurate? MLAT is suppose to replace current system, as supposely better and cheaper???

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The A220 that I fly currently has smart sensor pitot system.

It is remarkably stable compared to the previous methods I have been exposed to.

There does seem to be a distinct lack of money to resolve these issues both hardware and manpower. And even bigger lack motivation until an accident happens.

 

[Garbage1]

Video starts out kinda slow with all the respects given, but does contain a lot of good thoughts on this situation, if you stay with it.

 

[Garbage1]

 

[Garbage1]

 

[waross]

There are two factors here:
First there was altitude. For whatever reason, both craft were at the same altitude.
The second hole in the Swiss Cheese was "Visual Separation".
Visual separation was the backup to elevation issues.
Errors for whatever reason in altitude setting and adherence should have been offset by "Visual Separation".
It is apparent that both altitude separation and visual separation failed.
I don't see much about the reason for the failure of visual separation.

 

[LittleInch]

In my very limited experience of flying helicopters (long introductory lesson) you start to understand the controls and how each interact.

The main control column has multiple effects but when pushed forward, you need to compensate with the collective to basically create more lift, some of which then pushes the craft forward. Control over altitude is a mixture of collective and forward speed. If you back off the main control column to keep the same attitude you need to back off the collective. This machine was not at full speed but relatively speaking was shifting along so backing off that even a bit you tend to climb a bit until you back off the collective.

Normally 50 ft isn't going to make any difference. This time it did.

Now I'm not saying experienced helicopter pilots can't control altitude precisely when shifting along, but with everything else going on? And a bit of lack of practice?

But still root cause has to be the route of route 4 crossing an occasionally used runway approach with sod all vertical separation.

 

[Garbage1]

For me to put some perspective that I can relate to, concerning Rocket's Video about the helo pilot's lack of flying time at only 450-500 hours. I have 500 hours or so operating backhoes, construction equipment, and lifts on my land, and in no way would I ever consider myself capable of doing some of the things I see experts do with construction equipment on slopes..... I am purely a skilled beginner with aptitude for the task and getting the job done in some circumstances on slopes. I could not make a living doing it, nor would I want too. Operating construction equipment is not trivial, but another world from being an aircraft pilot. Especially in a highly challenging environment.......

500 hours is not a lot of time in the saddle........ IMHO

 

[DirteJoe]

Military averages around 12-18h a month flying time, outside of combat. So even though seat time is low, with the other schooling and simulator time, 500h is 2-3 years experience in the military and one should be fairly competent by that time.

 

[TugboatEng]

Threading the needle probably gives the VIP's that feeling of importance they crave.

 

[LionelHutz]

Well, I think the reasoning has pretty much been described here now. The helicopter was watching the wrong plane further out and was slowing to wait for it which resulted in it also climbing and then crashing into the plane it was supposed to be visually separating from. Just didn't see the plane coming in much more to their left side.

 

[Garbage1]

Helo Quick Stop

 

[DirteJoe]

Well, I think the reasoning has pretty much been described here now. The helicopter was watching the wrong plane further out and was slowing to wait for it which resulted in it also climbing and then crashing into the plane it was supposed to be visually separating from. Just didn't see the plane coming in much more to their left side.

Thats still not known for sure. They confirmed visual when the other plane was 8mi out on a night with 5mi of visibility, so even though its possible, its unlikely.

Its more likely they never had visual at all, and "traffic in sight request visual separation" is just code for "leave me alone im going to do what I want".

 

[Garbage1]

Quick Overview of ATC Radars, for anyone interested? Video provides more information on types of radars for different roles. Bird Control is X-Band for example, due to precision tracking and discrimination.

ATC-Radars - Radartutorial

www.radartutorial.eu

 

[dik]

additional...

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/05/us/dc-plane-helicopter-collision-investigation/index.html

 

[Garbage1]

All "Taking Flight With Rocket" Videos concerning Pat25 colliding with AA5342 has been pulled off youtube?? Wonder why???

Taking Flight With Rocket

Air Combat USA | Taking Flight With Rocket is where Michael "Rocket" Blackstone, veteran pilot with over 40 years of flying everything from the Piper Cub to the Pitts S-2C, to the Marchetti SF-260 to the Boeing 727, 737, 757, 767, 777 airliners. We are here to learn about what makes aviation...

www.youtube.com

 

[Garbage1]

May 2024 perhaps, at Regan National. I am finding lots of near misses at Regan.

MAJOR ACCIDENT ABOUT TO HAPPEN REAGAN NATIONAL AIRPORT â ï¸

â ï¸ TIME IS RUNNING OUT â ï¸ The truth is now being set free and things are about to get way more intense. Defend what is right. Protect those you love. Don't back down no matter how hard you have to fig

rumble.com

 

[DirteJoe]

Might be behind a paywall.

What the Black Hawk Pilots Could See, Just Before the Washington Crash

A 3-D model created by The Times visualizes the helicopter pilots’ field of view minutes before a fatal crash with a jet in Washington.

www.nytimes.com

Blackhawk's aprox position and view of 5342 around the time of
Tower: "PAT25 traffic just south of Wilson bridge is a CRJ at 1,200ft turning for Runway 33"
PAT25: PAT25 has the Traffic in sight, request visual separation
Tower: Visual separation approved.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1828x909/nyt_pat25cockpitview_caff998b491acd3dda8269b561831630bcf8da65.jpg

Maybe I'm nuts, but I don't think they ever made or intended to make visual contact with any plane.

 

[Garbage1]

According to a video I Just watched, they were asking why was only the flying pilot's name withheld for 4 days?

They went on to say she could have only been a part time pilot, because she was social media coordinator for White House for 4 years. She was in ROTC in 2018. So in 6 years time and 450-500 hours she is doing training check ride in the DC War Zone and not in a safe rural area? And her social media accounts were totally wiped and there is nothing on line, for someone who was a social media coordinator for White House.

Their opinion was nothing adds up about this whole catastrophe, and that it appears either pilot/crew were totally incompetent or intentional in their actions, and if not intentional why did other pilot not intervene or crew chief?

Can u smell that smell?