AA jet and Military helicopter collide over Potomac 4

Reagan National Airport crash: Military Black Hawk helicopter collides midair with American Airlines jet

An Army Black Hawk helicopter collided midair with an American Airlines flight from Wichita, Kansas, at Reagan National Airport on Wednesday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

23R has the hump and the car park on short finals ..

 

[DirteJoe]

This most likely boils down to a lack of staffing at ATC, not a lack of qualification.

However, Trump is right to call out DEI as the problem because the prior administration prioritized the hiring of not only unqualified but disruptive people. Sure, they weren't in the ATC position but imagine having a custodians with severe psychological disabilities sweeping the floor while you're trying to concentrate on your duties.

You can read it here on the official FAA website:

https://archive.ph/uhYgm#selection-2089.0-2111.329

Anybody that tries to distract from this real issue is totally disingenuous.

They needed to focus on hiring qualified staff and they didn't.

Wasn't just custodians. Try dealing with disruptive AST's and ASI's on time sensitive paperwork.
Since about 2017 I've run into countless people unfit for their jobs, be it from field inspectors to work-at-home people performing admin work at FSDOs. Atlanta particularly worse than all of them. Tail end of 2019 we had an ASI come up from SO19 that didn't speak English, or refused to, had no idea what he was even looking at in our shop, and signed off on things anyway. A few months ago we had some closed airspace above us, right next to a very active international airport.

But yes, DEI has almost nothing to do with this particular incident. Night vision on a VFR night flight 100' above height ceiling under an active landing path. Downright stupid.

 

[LittleInch]

No everything is magnetic we look at or talk about With ATC.

There are flux valves in the wing tips that measure it.

The FMS carries an almanac which then fits us into it's grid navigational database.

I know this is off topic, but going from one side of the US to the other in straight line looks like you change compass bearing about 20 degrees?

In olden days did you need to do it manually as you moved across different zones?

No wonder beacons are a good idea....

 

[Bendolfc]

Doesn't seem like there is any engineering failure here, more like dangerous practices that wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else in the world being an accepted norm in the US.

 

[stcbus]

Doesn't seem like there is any engineering failure here, more like dangerous practices that wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else in the world being an accepted norm in the US.

And stretched thin Atc workers for a very busy airport that was forced to allow even more flights against their wishes by Ted Cruz and other right wing republicans that wanted their directs to Reagan.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Why Are Great Circles the Shortest Flight Path? - GIS Geography

Airplanes travel along the true shortest route in a 3-dimensional space. This curved route is called a geodesic or great circle route.

gisgeography.com

Here is the reason. And yes it used to be done manually.

 

[TugboatEng]

stcbus, it appears the FAA was turning down qualified applicants. The shortage is artificial.

Brigida v. U.S. Department of Transportation - Mountain States Legal Foundation

The Obama administration dropped a skill-based system for selecting and hiring air traffic controllers, and replaced it with a new system designed to favor applicants on the basis of their race. The FAA purged its system of thousands of previously-qualified, ready-to-hire applicants simply...

mslegal.org

 

[TugboatEng]

Stcbus, I have already provided a link. It was literally posted on the FAA website that they were targeting specific people to hire for reasons except merit.

 

[stcbus]

Stcbus, I have already provided a link. It was literally posted on the FAA website that they were targeting specific people to hire for reasons except merit.

Not without merit. This has nothing to do specifically with ATC specific positions nor evidence of that. And again, why didn’t trump stop this policy during his first term if it was such an issue?

And you even admit yourself this crash has nothing to do with DEI. You’re just mad your god looks like a fool blaming without evidence.

 

[stevenal]

Please explain "visual separation" to me. Seeing a light in the sky that is far enough? Or a thermal image with night vision? How would anyone know they were seeing CRJ and not some other aircraft?

 

[TugboatEng]

The FAA has finite resources. Any resource committed to DEI is a resource taken away from operations so yes, DEI did contribute to on this crash.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Please explain "visual separation" to me. Seeing a light in the sky that is far enough? Or a thermal image with night vision? How would anyone know they were seeing CRJ and not some other aircraft?

I don't understand it either, it doesn't fit any of the flight rules I work to.

 

[thebard3]

I see reports that the Blackhawk was too high, about 350' instead of 200' at the time of the collision. Is 150' of vertical clearance really enough? I would think more separation would be required.

 

[hacksaw]

Lest we forget, female air traffic controllers during WWII, took their jobs more seriously than the males, when the 3rd Reich had boats and planes getting ready to invade of the coast of Florida.

 

[DirteJoe]

Please explain "visual separation" to me. Seeing a light in the sky that is far enough? Or a thermal image with night vision? How would anyone know they were seeing CRJ and not some other aircraft?

If you're at the correct altitude, and the other traffic is at the correct altitude, you're travelling essentially head on into traffic on a route you fly most likely multiple times a night. With night vis, you've got a bright as your target over ground visual and it's extremely easy to get visual. Unfortunately if you're 180ft too high and the other traffic is 20ft too low, there's a conflict.

Had the heli traffic not been above it's assigned altitude per the route, it'd be just like every other CA on that route that gets ignored at request. There could have been an error in the instruments, extreme target fixation distracting from instruments, even a cocky lets buzz this airplane moment.

thebard3, Is it enough? Technically yes. Clearance is clearance. Risky as all hell and extremely stupid, but on paper it works.

 

[stcbus]

The FAA has finite resources. Any resource committed to DEI is a resource taken away from operations so yes, DEI did contribute to on this crash.

Every day without an FAA leader was a day they were in turmoil and Trump let it happen for a week, contributing to the crash.

Oh and the literal urging everyone to quit with buyouts lmao.

 

[DirteJoe]

Couple of new views. Closer and more clearly shows the incident.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885338868708229179

 

[FacEngrPE]

GPS / GNSS resolves to WGS84 lat lon and elevation. Info Link
WGS84 coordinates can be transformed to all sorts of other datum.

Per this FAA site all coordinates for the purpose of aviation mapping are published as WGS84 Link
I expect this extends to aircraft navigation instruments.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

It does but there are huge restrictions for 3D use.

The use for altitude is very restricted.

 

[FacEngrPE]

For the record​

NTSB Media Briefing 1 - PSA Airlines Bombardier CRJ700 and Sikorsky H-60 military helicopter collision​

NTSB Media Briefing 2 - PSA Airlines Bombardier CRJ700 & Sikorsky H-60 military helicopter collision​

​

blancolirio

Potomac Mid Air Collision DCA 1/29/25​

Potomac Mid Air UPDATE 1/30/25​

Opinion - this airspace is extremely crowded. The available paths need to be examined, and possibly revised to increase separation between runway flight paths and local traffic. Capacity constraints of the air traffic management system also need to be examined.