Alaska Airlines flight forced to make an emergency landing... 82

[dik]

Brad...

"The more you know, the more you know you don't know."

might be more appropriate...

The more you know, the more you may not want to know.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Murph 9000]

Juan Browne's latest video. He's getting into the systemic failures in quality management systems at Boeing & Spirit.

blancolirio - Boeing's Quality Management Failure Explained 737-Max-9 Door 24 Jan 2024

 

[hokie66]

The FAA has spoken.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/24/business/boeing-ceo-washington/index.html

 

[lucky555]

Planes good to fly... what use is the NTSB investigation then?

 

[1503-44]

The NTSB investigation performs the most useful service of all.
Absolution from blame for the guilty and persecution of the innocent.

But more seriously, hopefully they will not completely ignore Alaska Air's potential contribution to increasing the risk by continuing to fly after the series of warning alarms and restricting distance from land rather than imposing altitude limits and if that was a correct or erroneous policy to keep it flying, or pull for detailed inspection and resolution. They might also try to determine exactly where, when and how the installation of the plug went wrong, what point missed their QA, if additional or better located pressure sensors would be of benefit and verify that the design or fit up procedures will be adequate in future. You know. Document the big picture. In the end, it's seldom only one thing that went wrong, so it's important to understand the path the events took on its way to becoming a serious incident, then put up the appropriate road blocks to stop it from happening again.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Its not up to the accident branches to dictate compliance policy.

Its the FAA's remit.

 

[1503-44]

Correct, they do investigations, but they may pass along certain "recommendations". What the agencies do with those is another thing.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Especially when it comes to that agency's not doing their jobs properly.

 

[1503-44]

Accident investigations in themselves can be taken as a recommendation of not to go down that same path again.

Yes, it's kind of a check and balance on system performance too. Macondo blew up the old Mineral Management Service. Completely dismantled and rebuilt from the ocean floor up, now under entirely new management of the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, The Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement (BSEE) now has responsibility for oversight of offshore oil and gas operations. The Coast Guard also has a part. MMS... gone.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[jrs87]

The Boeing Issue Isn’t About Bolts
Engineering TV (Engineering.com is a globally trusted source for professional engineering content with a mission to inspire the engineering professional to be and do better.)

https://youtu.be/UKR79e7BKcY

 

[1503-44]

It's not over. Its just beginning.

Customers getting wiseguy?
What if I don’t want to fly on a Max 9?
Alaska Air will let passengers change planes penalty free.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/25/...le_code=1.Qk0.pd_O.jCxRLTjX-qD0&smid=em-share

And today its Anti-icers

https://youtu.be/yZr-5_fdFdA?si=2YZI15FwYaioSyyf

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Murph 9000]

Latest from Juan Browne. He's covering the FAA response and the steps they require to get the MAX 9s back into service (within days). They are also not going to allow Boeing to increase their production rate until the quality systems are fixed.

blancolirio - Cleared For Takeoff! Boeing 737 Max-9 UPDATE 26 Jan 2024

 

[dik]

The de-icer issue clearly shows the FAA is 'broken'. They are acting in the interests of companies and not the passengers.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[thebard3]

This thread is toooooo long

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[Brian Malone]

Interesting op-ed that mirrors many of the changes in Boeing management that many who have worked at Boeing have posted about.

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/why-boeings-problems-with-737-max-began-more-than-25-years-ago

I find though the common complaint about bean-counters taking over and kicking the engineers to the curb somewhat simplistic as the Boeing and McDonnell Douglas top leadership teams were all engineers, albeit often armed with MBAs.

 

[1503-44]

In other words, you don't think a top floor, corner office, a Gulfstream, stock options, a $60,000,000 golden parachute and the shareholder mafia could change the engineer's perspective of corporate governance.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Brian Malone]

I am certain the financial lures can change perspectives. I think it is significant and overlooked that the 'bean-counters' have not been straight accountant actuarial non-technical outsiders brought in to run the business by efficiency studies and ROI optimization. The 'bean-counters' have been biased toward technical insiders who are / should be / could be aware of the effects of relentlessly chasing profit over quality, safety, and staff morale.

 

[Brian Malone]

Just because a person has an engineering degree doesn't mean they necessarily have a passion for a machine over money. I have worked with people who had engineering degrees but used that only as a stepping stone to management - in essence to move away from the nuts and bolts of engineering.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Seems they had the door out at Boeing production so Spirt locals could fix a snag with it.

 

[LittleInch]

in essence to move away from the nuts and bolts of engineering

Pity the technicians followed their lead....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.