Hi everyone. I'll soon be graduating with a BSME. I've accumulated alot of debt in student loans over the years and I was wandering how common it is for companies to agree to pay off those loans for engineers. I was never comfortable bringin up the subject during interviews but now that I'm getting offers I would like to bring it up but I need to know what to expect. Any advice on this matter would be appreciated.
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Company paying off student loans 16
- Thread starter redkardz
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- #21
My room mate in college got his last semester paid for by the company he went to work for. However he had worked there for 3 summers prior to graduation, and he was one of the few that did not get any type of sign on bonus when he started.
I could see something like this happening. But to expect an employer to pay off your student loans is out of line IMHO. Because, what about the people that worked all thru out college. They would have much less student loans than someone that did not work at all during school.
I could see something like this happening. But to expect an employer to pay off your student loans is out of line IMHO. Because, what about the people that worked all thru out college. They would have much less student loans than someone that did not work at all during school.
Only the government would subsidize behavior (or create tax incentives to subsidize behavior) such that those who work the hardest get the least support/reward. Paying an employee more because they chose to run up enormous student loans compared to an employee that prudently worked their way through school does not make sense. Salaries can be an incentive; however, I really question the merits rewarding those who incur the greatest debt with a favored starting salary.
In contrast, I can understand why an organization would pay more for a new employee, if that employee was better educated/trained, than someone with a weaker education. However, the size of incurred debt is not a direct correlation of the quality of one’s educational experience. I guess that I need to get out a lot more and hang out with government elitists to understand the concept of rewarding personal debt.
herewegothen, please tell us more about the other professions where this is common. Especially if there are no tax incentives or government agency involved in the practice. Nothing surprises me when it comes to how politicians buy new votes to the detriment of our society. It would surprise me if a business engages in this practice without some finical benefit from the government.
In contrast, I can understand why an organization would pay more for a new employee, if that employee was better educated/trained, than someone with a weaker education. However, the size of incurred debt is not a direct correlation of the quality of one’s educational experience. I guess that I need to get out a lot more and hang out with government elitists to understand the concept of rewarding personal debt.
herewegothen, please tell us more about the other professions where this is common. Especially if there are no tax incentives or government agency involved in the practice. Nothing surprises me when it comes to how politicians buy new votes to the detriment of our society. It would surprise me if a business engages in this practice without some finical benefit from the government.
- Thread starter
- #24
Congratulations, I hope to do the same someday; although I hope all my kids are whole.
To date, I've been lucky enough to develop the right personal and profesional skills and graduate during a time when jobs are plentiful. Although I agree that I haven't "distinguished [myself] to the point of extraordinary reward", this does put me in a position to choose where I work based on a number of factors. I certainly don't expect to make a deal that no one has ever been offered before, but if it is not uncommon for that company, I would want to discuss the possibility with them.
As an employer, I would be willing to make exceptions for those employees who were worth it.
For reference, one HR department said they pay for any classes that you can prove benifit a healthy work/life balence. IE. art class, physical fitness class, and of course anything relatinng to your job description. This company obviously understands that happier employees are better employees. This also reduces turnover as well as costs associated with recruitment and training.
If agreeing to pay of an employees student loans, even if this results in a lower salery, helps him achieve piece of mind and in return become a better and more committed worker, then I feel it could be worth it for the company.
To date, I've been lucky enough to develop the right personal and profesional skills and graduate during a time when jobs are plentiful. Although I agree that I haven't "distinguished [myself] to the point of extraordinary reward", this does put me in a position to choose where I work based on a number of factors. I certainly don't expect to make a deal that no one has ever been offered before, but if it is not uncommon for that company, I would want to discuss the possibility with them.
As an employer, I would be willing to make exceptions for those employees who were worth it.
For reference, one HR department said they pay for any classes that you can prove benifit a healthy work/life balence. IE. art class, physical fitness class, and of course anything relatinng to your job description. This company obviously understands that happier employees are better employees. This also reduces turnover as well as costs associated with recruitment and training.
If agreeing to pay of an employees student loans, even if this results in a lower salery, helps him achieve piece of mind and in return become a better and more committed worker, then I feel it could be worth it for the company.
I have also never heard of any company paying off loans, only paying 'during' school.
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
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- #26
here's how to do it - the company (in leiu of a signing bonus which they would otherwise have been prepared to pay) agrees to pay off the new-hire's student loans in the form of monthly grossed-up stipends to cover the loan payments. This way the "signing bonus" is spread over ~10 years and provides some incentive to stay on. Could even scale the "bonus" based on time value of money and recruiting expenses. If I were in HR, I'd give it some serious thought.
OK, here's an angle. How would this be handled from a taxation point of view?
Will it work out better for the employer/employee?
Will it just be treated and taxed as income?
Will it be such an unusual situation that it's not worth trying to work out how to tax it?
I haven't heard of it in practice in Engineering, though you hear of this kind of things in other professions.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
Will it work out better for the employer/employee?
Will it just be treated and taxed as income?
Will it be such an unusual situation that it's not worth trying to work out how to tax it?
I haven't heard of it in practice in Engineering, though you hear of this kind of things in other professions.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
I'm starting to see the advantages of not paying an employee's loans. Helps filter out applicants with an oversize sense of entitlement and/or undersize sense of fiscal responsibility.
Believe me, you want direct control over where and when your money is sent and debts are paid. The student loan folks are exceptionally unforgiving of the dings they put in your credit rating, even if it's the result of their mistake.
My father would make exceptions to attract and retain key people in his business. One thing he never did was assume someone else's debt.
BTW Child (or "Adult-in-training") #1, age 8, understands compounding. Child #2, age 5, understands consequences. Child 2.7 will soon learn life beyond the umbilical is colder and tougher than what he/she currently enjoys.
Believe me, you want direct control over where and when your money is sent and debts are paid. The student loan folks are exceptionally unforgiving of the dings they put in your credit rating, even if it's the result of their mistake.
My father would make exceptions to attract and retain key people in his business. One thing he never did was assume someone else's debt.
BTW Child (or "Adult-in-training") #1, age 8, understands compounding. Child #2, age 5, understands consequences. Child 2.7 will soon learn life beyond the umbilical is colder and tougher than what he/she currently enjoys.
I'm pretty sure that it would be treated as salary - with the same tax obligations to both employee and employer.
Many companies will contribute to or sponsor scholarships. Generally these are structured as charitable contributions, and thus offer a tax advantage to the company.
Yes, many companies will pay for continuing education for existing employees. Any if you actually look at the policies, you will see that there are conditions imposed. Things like: "approval required", or "after 1 year of employment", and "if you don't get a B or higher we won't pay", and "if you quit within two years of finishing, you have to pay us back".
I simply see no incentive for an engineering firm to consider paying off a new hire's student loans. How would they recover the cost?
The attitude that you are conveying here - intentionally or not - is that you feel that you are entitled to having a potential employer pay off your debts simply because you have them. Someone with such an attitude is also likely to feel that they are entitled to come in late whenever they want, or to take 2-hour lunches because the "need a break in the middle of the day", or any number of other special treatments. In short, it is a big warning flag to potential employers.
Many companies will contribute to or sponsor scholarships. Generally these are structured as charitable contributions, and thus offer a tax advantage to the company.
Yes, many companies will pay for continuing education for existing employees. Any if you actually look at the policies, you will see that there are conditions imposed. Things like: "approval required", or "after 1 year of employment", and "if you don't get a B or higher we won't pay", and "if you quit within two years of finishing, you have to pay us back".
I simply see no incentive for an engineering firm to consider paying off a new hire's student loans. How would they recover the cost?
The attitude that you are conveying here - intentionally or not - is that you feel that you are entitled to having a potential employer pay off your debts simply because you have them. Someone with such an attitude is also likely to feel that they are entitled to come in late whenever they want, or to take 2-hour lunches because the "need a break in the middle of the day", or any number of other special treatments. In short, it is a big warning flag to potential employers.
- Thread starter
- #31
gymmeh - I admit my tone was a bit harsh and appologize but I was looking for informative posts like those that appeared later in this thread.
For the record, I've worked my way through school. Been at 8 different jobs in a wide variety of industries in the past 4 years.
I agree with some of you that it may work out better for the employer while apearing better for the employee.
For the record, I've worked my way through school. Been at 8 different jobs in a wide variety of industries in the past 4 years.
I agree with some of you that it may work out better for the employer while apearing better for the employee.
redkards,
Have you had an internship or co-op?
If you look around this forum, I am sure you will find many people asking questions on how to deal with company policies that make absolutely no sense what-so-ever!
When you start working for real you will find that almost all companies do things that don’t make sense.
You are correct in thinking that a happy worker may be more committed and a better worker, but that does not mean HR or the Boss of HR, or the boss of the boss of the boss understands this.
I requested more cross training form my HR department because it would make me a better worker/more efficient/ establish a better relationship with other engineering departments/etc… they said “yes that’s a good idea, BUT bla blab bla…”.
PS: What is 0.7 x 12 month? (I think this is what Tick was implaying)
Have you had an internship or co-op?
If you look around this forum, I am sure you will find many people asking questions on how to deal with company policies that make absolutely no sense what-so-ever!
When you start working for real you will find that almost all companies do things that don’t make sense.
You are correct in thinking that a happy worker may be more committed and a better worker, but that does not mean HR or the Boss of HR, or the boss of the boss of the boss understands this.
I requested more cross training form my HR department because it would make me a better worker/more efficient/ establish a better relationship with other engineering departments/etc… they said “yes that’s a good idea, BUT bla blab bla…”.
PS: What is 0.7 x 12 month? (I think this is what Tick was implaying)
If you have any chance of making this happen, you need to do it at a company where the engineering manager holds the purse strings. HR will likely not allow it if it is an exception to the rules and the bean-counters will never go for anything such as giving you more than absolutely required.
I'd love to have someone pay off my student loans (13 years of college, and the 3rd degree of the 4 was partially financed by Visa), but I would still never expect an employer to pay off my loans when someone else without such debt wouldn't be able to get a similar financial benefit. Why on earth should I be entitled to $$,$$$ worth of compensation when the debt-free person next to me doesn't get any, when they might be an even more valuable candidate than I am?
A signing bonus (more prevalent in some industries than others) is a way to get some kind of nice up-front chunk o' change that you could *choose* to use for your loans, or a new car, or toward any unreimbursable moving expenses, or your kid's college tuition, but doesn't automatically favor people with debt over people without debt.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
A signing bonus (more prevalent in some industries than others) is a way to get some kind of nice up-front chunk o' change that you could *choose* to use for your loans, or a new car, or toward any unreimbursable moving expenses, or your kid's college tuition, but doesn't automatically favor people with debt over people without debt.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
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- #37
- Thread starter
- #38
I had to ask though because:
A)Life isn't fair, expecially when it comes to money and government.
- Those who save all their life won't get as much social security as those who spent every penny they earned correct?
B)It happens in other professions.
- The government would have paid off all my debt over 3 years if I had joined the marines.
I'm not saying I'm special and I deserve it. You gotta look out for number one so by not knowing all your options you are only hurting yourself.
You can call me cocky if you want to, others do all the time. I like to believe it's confidence, but I assure you that I am my own biggest critic.
Thanks for all the replys. I'm here to learn. I honestly appreciate all input.
A)Life isn't fair, expecially when it comes to money and government.
- Those who save all their life won't get as much social security as those who spent every penny they earned correct?
B)It happens in other professions.
- The government would have paid off all my debt over 3 years if I had joined the marines.
I'm not saying I'm special and I deserve it. You gotta look out for number one so by not knowing all your options you are only hurting yourself.
You can call me cocky if you want to, others do all the time. I like to believe it's confidence, but I assure you that I am my own biggest critic.
Thanks for all the replys. I'm here to learn. I honestly appreciate all input.
Perhaps I was a tad harsh in my judgment. Anything with a whiff of entitlement mentality strikes a nerve in me.
I suppose it's safer to ask here than out there, as well it should be. I think it's safe to say that if you press your point with most employers, it is not going to leave a positive impression.
Looking forward to seeing more of you here at Eng-tips.
I suppose it's safer to ask here than out there, as well it should be. I think it's safe to say that if you press your point with most employers, it is not going to leave a positive impression.
Looking forward to seeing more of you here at Eng-tips.
I think IRstuff hit the nail on the head. If there's not enough suitable/qualified candidates in your specific category (taking into account industry, experience etc.) then that's when you see these kinds of offers.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
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