Duck boat disaster in Missouri 5

[bimr]

More than 40 people have died in incidents involving Ducks since 1999, so one would think that the cost for buying insurance would put these obsolete devices out of business.

amphibious-duck-vehicle

Was up at the Wisconsin Dells earlier this summer and don't understand the interest in that particular tourist attraction.

Another tourist attraction is the Huey. Was up in St. Joseph Michigan a few weeks ago and this Lest We Forget organization was promoting rides over the City. Riding in a 40 year Huey seems to make little sense. The organization obviously can't meet the legal standard to provide paid for rides so they offer a 1-year membership with a free ride on the Huey.

Tourist Attractions

 

[Strong]

"The NTSB has recommended passengers not wear life jackets on boats that have canopies because when the vehicles sink, the life jackets can float passengers into the canopy, preventing escape."

I find this to be crazy! I would prefer to have the jacket on to be able to exit sides as water level rose. If you wait for vessel to sink and get pinned against fabric top, then either pierce top, make way to edge, or slip jacket off. I can't imagine there was not one concerned person passing out jackets at the first wave! I'll trust my 60+ years of boating experience and instincts over the NTSB "recommendations"!


Walt

 

[dik]

A recent article stated that the water surface became very 'choppy' and very quickly. If the lake is shallow, wave mechanics show that the amplitude of the waves can increase dramatically with a slight increase in wind velocity. We have a similar condition on Lake Winnipeg which is huge in area, but I understand has a maximum depth of about 20'. Waves can set up very fast and the lake can become treacherous in a very short period of time.

Dik

 

[zeusfaber]

I would prefer to have the jacket on to be able to exit sides as water level rose.

I think that probably depends on whether you're expecting the boat to swamp then sink on an even keel, or to capsize suddenly. I've seen too many reports (this is the first that springs to mind) of people getting pinned underneath capsized boats to want to dismiss the NTSB advice out of hand.

In a different case, lifejackets were handed round and people were told to put them on, but the majority of passengers didn't have time to don them before abandoning (this one, unlike Table Rock Lake, was an even-keel foundering in flat calm conditions).

Foam filling for positive buoyancy isn't a universal panacea. In the case of the Liverpool sinking in the video above, it turned out they hadn't been able to fit nearly as much foam into the available space as they thought. A couple of months later in London, another Duck had to be abandoned into the water when buoyancy foam that had been packed too close round the engine compartment caught fire.

A.

 

[dik]

g (this one was an even-keel foundering, but then the conditions were flat calm).

From the BBC:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44895391

It happened as a line of powerful thunderstorms rolled through the American Midwest, uprooting trees and felling power lines.

At the time of the accident, winds reached around 65mph (104 km/h), according to the National Weather Service.

Dik

 

[zeusfaber]

@dik: I hadn't meant it to be read that way. Original post since edited to make it clearer that I was contrasting with a different (and mercifully less tragic) Duck sinking. Thanks for pointing it out.

A.

 

[dik]

zeus: what is even keel floundering?

Dik

 

[zeusfaber]

Foundering (with no L in the middle) means filling with water and sinking. Doing it on an even keel means that the vessel stays the right way up all the way through the process. This is what you see happening in the Wacker Quacker 1 video.

What often happens when boats swamp is that their natural stability gets eroded (by a mixture of free surface effect and loss of Gm due to their sitting lower in the water) and they capsize (often very quickly and with next to no warning). The capsize usually causes downflooding into the remaining dry spaces and what started as "sinking slowly" can turn into "suddenly just disappeared" - from the perspective of the occupant, "water sloshing round your ankles" can very suddenly turn into "wall of freezing cold water blasting through the wheelhouse door and windows, while the whole world turns upside down". There seems to have been a bit of this about the Table Rock Lake accident.

There's a whole science (damage-case stability calculations) in predicting which way it will go, but weather conditions and the behaviour of passengers make a difference. A big determinant of success in the Mediterranean migrant rescues seems to be persuading the migrants to sit still for long enough to be rescued.

A.

 

[zeusfaber]

A recent article stated that the water surface became very 'choppy' and very quickly.

NTSB published an initial review of the onboard video recordings yesterday. Relevant entries:

18:55:20 The boat entered the water. The water appeared calm at this time.​

19:00:25. Whitecaps rapidly appeared on the water and winds increased.​

19:04:15. An electronic tone associated with the bilge alarm activated.​

19:08:27. The inward-facing recording ended, while the vehicle was still on the surface of the water.​

Very quickly indeed.

A.

 

[dik]

zeus: Thanks and thanks for the spelling correction... been spelling it wrong all my life.

Dik

 

[CWB1]

Interesting comments. I've driven a DUK a few times and ridden in them many times, a friend uses one for hauling supplies around the Alaskan bush. I can't say I see anything overly wrong with the design. In the water they're more stable than most of the boats I've been in. On land they're not the easiest to drive but no worse than many large trucks, which is still significantly better than driving heavy armor down the freeway with hatches closed using periscopes as many of our 18 year old servicemen do. Personally, I'd worry more about the currently low state of drivers' licensing standards in this country than a few businesses operating DUKWs.

 

[ornerynorsk]

19:00:25 to 19:08:27 - 8 minutes is an excruciating eternity when the fertilizer is impinging the oscillator!

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[dik]

Ornery... we call them fans in Canada...

Dik

 

[MacGyverS2000]

rotary oscillator

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[ornerynorsk]

Dik, we do too, just being facetious. We also do not call it "fertilizer".

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[3DDave]

Keep in mind - people died.

 

[bimr]

zeus: Thanks and thanks for the spelling correction... been spelling it wrong all my life.

Dik

Flounder was the guy in Animal House:

 

[waross]

"fertilizer is impinging the oscillator"
"we call them fans in Canada"
Telling stories out of school here:
My wife lost all interest in being a fan of bull riding events when she was impinged with some fertilizer at a local Bull-arama".
True story, no BS.-- Bad choice of words but you know what I mean.
grin

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[D Scullion]

Salamander Amphibious Vehicles

Almost into production, being designed in Ireland in response to the DUK accidents. Kicked off by a tour company in Dublin who has run several DUKs for a number of years.

It is being designed to meet all relevant road and marine regulations

 

[bimr]

The new Salamander appears to retain many of the design flaws that were inherent in the original DUK that were outlined in the NTSB report.

 

[LittleInch]

"110% buoyancy, vessel remains afloat if fully flooded" and
"retractable mechanical sponsons"

I think would make a substantial difference to survivability.

The current DUKWs they run in Dublin also seem to have inflatable sponsons.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.