E-scooter and E-bike fires 1

[Alistair_Heaton]

I am not surprised it doesn't bother you. But this battery stuff is all dc so common problem although we seem to get more cheap trash chargers maybe because the market is bigger.

There was a spate of bad li ion battery chargers and those Segway type systems over here.

 

[moon161]

They do have a bit of a reputation for lighting off edit- for this reason I got a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery for her scooter - . Hopefully as they proliferate they'll approach automotive levels of reliability. I'm planning to get an e-bike for my wife in the spring, will probably store and charge it outdoors. From what I hear, the carbon footprint of e bikes is less than that of pedal bikes per mile because power generation is cleaner than food production.

 

[hokie66]

moon161, that belongs in the joke thread.

 

[dik]

moon161... that is not likely the case if you use fossil fuel for power generation.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[CWB1]

That's not quite true. Amazon does sell products. But they also allow other people to sell through them, much like Ebay. When we get bad product, we talk to Amazon and they've always made it right.

Amazon itself is one of the worst offenders on that site.

Your point is irrelevant. Laws should be equally applied and consumer protections upheld without special exceptions for online retailers. If your kid dies bc something bought online wasn't safe you're going to want more than a refund but legally you'll be told you have to sue the manufacturer, not the marketplace. If you'd shopped brick&mortar stateside OTOH you'd sue both.

 

[zeusfaber]

Law in UK and EU is slightly different from that. For imported goods, the importer has the same responsibilities for ensuring compliance as a domestic manufacturer - something that comes as a nasty shock to a few shopkeepers who have filled their shelves with stuff bought off AliBaba.

A.

 

[spsalso]

CWB1,

Asserting something is "irrelevant" without demonstrating that it is, is irrelevant.

You are asserting there are special exceptions to the (American, presumably) law for "online retailers". Could you please provide more detail about those special exceptions?


spsalso

 

[BrianPetersen]

What happens to those compliance responsibilities when an end user buys direct from an offshore vendor? Thd end user is themselves the importer.

A retail store who does that, can have a finger pointed in their direction, but an online shopper, it can only point to themselves.

 

[LionelHutz]

"but if everything is designed for 230v and is fiddled to take 110v its always going to be a screw up"

It's not though.

I certainly don't consider European electrical stuff to be in any way superior. Just a BS option to claim so.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I wouldn't touch initially 110V 60Hz converted to 230V 50hz either. The AC/DC can handle anything is not an issue eg usb charger.

This stuff isn't European design, its mainly designed in India and the like.

To be honest I don't rate British electrical design very highly. German though I would pay a premium for.

With a lot of the smart gear stuff its just not made for the currents and heat. Example sonoff smart switches they claim to be rated at 16 amps 50/60hz but the plastic an contacts are the same for both. The emf noise stuff is all 50hz optimised. There seems to be a different way of defining the limits. If you only put resistive load through them it might be ok. But as soon as reactive loads go through them they all seem to go to pot.

And there are major changes to the Powerfactor of chargers as well with conversions both ways.

So its not 50hz is better than 60hz or vice versa. Its products designed from the outset for either are better than products fiddled so they can use the other.

The Alibaba/aliexpress chargers are pretty much all designed for 230V 50hz and then butchered into accepting 110V 60Hz. And that goes for the some of the high end stuff as well. If you look at ABB they and siemens they are separate and if its to be multi use then they have to be passed by both as fit for use to the same standards as solo. Which I might add will be TUV German not EU.

 

[LionelHutz]

That's funny, because I'd prefer to never see another piece of Siemens electrical equipment again.

If you buy shit from Alibaba then what do you expect? Nothing from Alibaba will ever go into my house on 120V power. I prefer my house not on fire.

 

[dik]

That's why they like warm beer... British Leyland does the fridges...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

lucas is a swear word in my book as well. UK is shite at electrical, although the UK socket plugs are the way ahead of others, but that's for mechanical reasons not electrosoddomy reasons.

And do they really do fridges? Thank the lord I have never experienced one of them before. The BV boilers in the wagons were pretty useless and that was just a resistance heating element. We used to weld a box onto the exhaust and fill it full of water to cook food.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Actually what's the issue with siemens? always it was ABB gear I was always involved with. Maybe it is also fiddled?

 

[dik]

I've had over half a dozen British sportscars over the years... and it's a love-hate relationship... Got my first speeding ticket in my first Cooper-S...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Mate I only drove a foden for 2 years. I just shivered when I typed that. The Bedford's were relatively German in comparison.

 

[Eufalconimorph]

UK plugs make the best caltrops. They're huge and most stable with the prongs facing straight up, unlike other plugs that tend to lie with the prongs horizontal. Perfect for "Home Alone" style misadventures. They do have some good things for electrical safety: the long ground pin and shrouded line/neutral pins work well, and the shutter activated by the ground pin is quite a good idea that depends on the longer ground. US NEMA 5-15 has a long ground pin, and shuttered outlets are available, but the contact points for line/neutral are a bit far forward for shrouding to be reliable. The fuse in the UK plugs is a hack to work around the horrible "ring circuit" idea.

As for battery fires, I suspect a big portion of the problem will be numerous devices that don't comply with any safety regulations whatsoever. Until Amazon, Walmart, Alibaba, and such "marketplace" sites are held responsible for the products they sell (or allow others to sell on their sites) unsafe crap will keep getting sold, and some fly-by-night all-caps six-letter shell company will take the blame and disappear. My employer uses LiFePo4 cells due to safety risks (automotive product), it's not the nicest chemistry to use (the V-I discharge curve is nearly flat, then the voltage drops precipitously, so determining the State of Charge (SoC) requires a Coulomb counter which increases BoM cost and charger complexity). With Li-Ion you can estimate the SoC from the voltage well enough, the energy density is higher, the power density is higher, the over-charge prevention and over-discharge prevention circuitry is simpler, it just has that pesky "vent with flame" issue!

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

yep they also make good phone holders. They never get pulled when some one trips on the wire.

Must admit i have never stood on a UK plug.... The EU sockets/plugs are utter bollocks.

 

[hokie66]

Another article about fires caused by e-scooter and e-bike lithium ion batteries.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-18/e-scooter-lithium-battery-fire-risk-fears-/101863902

 

[hokie66]

These fires are more and more common. Just in Brisbane where I live, there seems to be at least one house lost per week, and the fire department is tired of it. Insurance companies are quickly modifying policy conditions to disallow coverage for fires caused by battery chargin.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/09/tech/lithium-ion-battery-fires/index.html