Engine designs that have problems 22

[enginesrus]

Since the one thread I started, is headed way off topic, reason for this.
Engine designs that have problems or have had them.
I'll start with the 3 valve Triton.
This guy explains. Has data from others that deal with the same problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcN_WcGr4BU

 

[TugboatEng]

What is the trouble with a hot V? Caterpillar has been using the design successfully for 30+ years on their 3500 series engines.

Aftercooler is the yellow bit in the middle, you can see an intake tube bottom left and the rest is exhaust manifold. These engines run 1200°F exhaust temps continuously.

 

[LionelHutz]

Hey look, the thread died for a week and now you're back again taking another poke at stirring the pot.

 

[SwinnyGG]

@LionelHutz

In his mind you've 'insulted' him personally to the level where he will just ignore you. He does the same to me after many responses to his threads questioning the logic involved.

 

[enginesrus]

Tugboat, 2 different engines and different applications. The N63 is known for problems, it is hidden under a hood with somewhat restricted airflow. Those big engines have plenty of airflow around them and are built 1000's of times better than the cast aluminum block automobile engines. Yes great idea if you can keep the heat away from the rest of the engine. I also understand they have some catalytic converters almost on the engine as well, I guess they wanted it cooking pretty good.

3500, did they ever work out the valve issues they had some years ago? The 3600's had some issues as well.

 

[CWB1]

Hey look, the thread died for a week and now you're back again taking another poke at stirring the pot.

To be fair, ~90% of this subforum is speculation based on popular media reports which are usually incorrect due to ignorance and/or sensationalism. Poke a bit of fun and don't take any of it too seriously.

 

[TugboatEng]

Those intake ducts in my photo are aluminum. I don't understand what makes the N63 different, the hot V isn't the bad engineering decision. In these cases the failure is usually in the choices of elastomers/plastics. For what it's worth, those nuts and bolts you see are Inconel 660 and cost $20 each x ~150 of them per engine.

 

[enginesrus]

[link To be fair, ~90% of this subforum is speculation based on popular media reports which are usually incorrect due to ignorance and/or sensationalism. Poke a bit of fun and don't take any of it too seriously. ]Link[/url]

Most everything I post in this thread is of bad experiences of end users, with some of them backed up by lawsuit's.

I'm curious what sort of issues are the 3500's and 3600's experiencing nowadays? They were having problems many years ago.

 

[TugboatEng]

The valves are a non-issue now. The 3500 is a very solid platform. Exhaust leaks are the biggest problem I experience nowadays. Cat has been all over the place with gasket materials. They use Parker EUI and ESI type gaskets or spiral wound. In all cases they spec stainless steel for construction which is subject to creep and take compression set as a result. Why they use SS gaskets and inconel fasteners, I'll never know.

 

[enginesrus]

So I am guessing they do not use those fasteners on mining truck engines or gensets?

 

[TugboatEng]

Same fasteners on all engines. They went to v-band clamps for a minute and used Parker EUI seals but had problems with leaks because they used SS instead of inconel 750X. I'm sad they went back to the bolted flanges. The solution was simple. The v-bands really facilitated maintenance.

 

[SwinnyGG]

To be fair, ~90% of this subforum is speculation based on popular media reports which are usually incorrect due to ignorance and/or sensationalism. Poke a bit of fun and don't take any of it too seriously.

The difference is, in threads based on media reporting, generally the group does a fair job of recognizing that we're dealing with speculation, and generally the group also responds to new information in a rational way.

These threads involve no information at all, nor data of any kind. OP just makes stuff up basically and expects us all to agree with him.

Disagree with him enough, and ask enough questions about where he's getting his information from, and you'll get added to his personal 'ignore' list, as I have.

 

[enginesrus]

There is plenty of data, just look for it. I'm not spending time to do someones home work.
I have no ignore list.
My posts here are similar to others, it is to call attention to problems not try to solve them all.

 

[TugboatEng]

While anecdotes are in fact data, they aren't enough to form conclusions. However, the purpose of this forum ks to share information to help solve problems. Some share information here to cause problems.

 

[enginesrus]

Data ? Is there any data on all the cam phaser failures in all the various product lines?
Honda is well known for the VTC actuator failure, that in the 4th generation didn't have a fix.
Here is some data,

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10127348-9999.pdf

Data for Ford

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10199482-0001.pdf

I suppose there is plenty of data for the various engines and problems I have mentioned in the previous posts.

BMW data

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10201140-9999.pdf

https://www.classaction.org/media/urena-v-bmw-of-north-america-llc.pdf

The numbers for how many affected units in all the various cases would be next to impossible to discover. If they are not serviced at a dealer shop, then the numbers that the manufactures have would not be
very accurate.

Data for Hyundai

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...0-u-s-vehicles-for-engine-issue-idUSKBN28E23B

Is this all the sort of data you want? Or is it dealer and manufacture proprietary data you are looking for?
Like I have said the data is out there just look.

 

[SwinnyGG]

I'm not spending time to do someones home work.

The burden of proof for your claims is on you, not the rest of us.

 

[hpaircraft]

The burden of proof for your claims is on you, not the rest of us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens's_razor

Hitchens's razor is an epistemological razor (a general rule for rejecting certain knowledge claims) that states "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." The razor was created by and named after author and journalist Christopher Hitchens (1949–2011). It implies that the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim; if this burden is not met, then the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it.

 

[Lou Scannon]

There you go.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

 

[enginesrus]

F150 leaky plastic oil pans. This one just hit a relative, I think its a $1000. dealer repair, cost not confirmed yet, the relative got $700. price from an independent.
It is the typical manufacturing money saving move and then the consumer pays and pays for the sub standard junk designs. So the newer engines are not more leak proof than the old ones from the 50's and 60's.

For data just search, F150 oil pan leak.

https://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/ford-f-150-oil-leak/

 

[TugboatEng]

So the newer engines are not more leak proof than the old ones from the 50's and 60's.

Do you really believe this? 50's and 60's cars leaked so much you wouldn't know if it was the oil pan or not.

Speaking of Ford oil pans, wait until you see the cost to replace your steel oil pan on your 7.3 diesel when it rusts through.

You must think there is a special place in hell for Matti Holtzberg.

http://polimotor.com/

 

[enginesrus]

I suppose that would run for a few minutes. Maybe much longer on compressed air.