GDTP 2009

[giggity]

Am I hallucinating or is the test for the 2009 standard available?

GDTP (Y14.5) - Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing Professional Certification

 

[3DDave]

Looks like it might be out just in time to become superseded.

Curiously the related info on the exam still says:

"Certification will be based upon the current edition
of the Y14.5 Dimensioning and Tolerancing Standard,
its appendices and the application of its principles and
practices."

So up until now the '1994 test should have been using the 2009 edition, the current one?

And this BS:

"applicants must have five years of documented experience in the field of GD&T in the recognized use of the system in both application and understanding"

Either the test is sufficient to demonstrate one understands how it works or it isn't. And if it requires some vaporous five years as documented in some vaporous way, then why is that documentation insufficient?

Also, does this mean that no one is eligible for the test until five years after it has been released?

The guys I worked with who got certified just got their bosses, who knew nothing about the standard, to write letters.

<gripe>
Unlike other areas, there is so little definitive feedback on D&T that it's useless to claim amounts of time as a gauge of capability. If one is a bad doctor, the patients suffer and your practice fails and maybe you get sued and loose medical insurance. During residency there's a good chance that a number of good doctors will oversee the decisions made and correct the errors. If one is a bad lawyer, you lose cases or clients fire you and sue you.

In D&T, if a person does a bad job, it doesn't matter much because so many places just ignore the precise requirements of the drawing and make parts that fit. It's especially clear when datums and default angle tolerances are examined. I expect 90% of companies who use Y14.5 have drawings with tolerancing that is so defective as to be worthless, depending on their suppliers to hit the nominals for the items to function. Put some values on the fabricator recognizes and some FCFs to take off because they add cost. Basically, cargo-cult tolerancing.

For those in the 10%, I'm not writing about you. You can write 'not me,' but that's already covered.
</gripe>

Test takers, if this will get you a raise or your company will pay for it, go for it. Maybe it will also work as a cudgel to the 90%, but don't count on it.

If ASME really cared about expertise and not the money they get from selling the test, they would adopt the Khan Academy model so that anyone at any time could verify their abilities and so that anyone they presented to could see just what they knew and how well they knew it. By-the-by Khan Academy requires a near perfect score on a series of questions in order to be seen as mastering the topic.

 

[giggity]

I also found that Y14.5.2 has been updated as well. Looks like it is ready. Anyone other than 3DDave thinking about taking this?

 

[3DDave]

re: Y14.5.2

$39 for the 2000 version, 20 pages, paper or PDF; $45 for the 2017 version, 21 pages, PDF only.

That new page had better be spectacular.

I think I paid for the 2000 version, only to find it was exactly the same content as ASME puts on the test website.

 

[3DDave]

Of related interest:

http://papers.sae.org/2012-01-0557/

$27.

McGee, W., "The Accuracy of CAD/CAM Parts - A Critical Analysis," SAE Technical Paper 2012-01-0557, 2012, doi:10.4271/2012-01-0557.

The key is that the CMM makers, those most likely to have experience and with the greatest motive in understanding the standard, did a critically poor job of it, suggesting that 'experience' is a poor indicator of expertise.

The response to this was the creation of the mathematical definitions and the certification standards.

"It would take seven years to create the highly complex mathematical formulas, compiled in a new standard, ASME Y14.5.1M-1994. One year later, a certification program, proposed by this author, was created under the guidelines of another a new standard, ASME Y14.5.2-1995." The author mentioned is Walter James McGee.

 

[greenimi]

http://krulikowskiconsulting.com/coming-soon-asme-y14-5-2009-certification-exam/

Per Alex Krulikowski:

"The long awaited ASME Y14.5-2009 Dimensioning & Tolerancing certification exam is completed. It is scheduled to be available to the public on July 1st. I will make a follow-up post as I hear additional information.

The future of the Y14.5M-1994 certification exam

The Y14.5 Dimensioning and Tolerancing certification exam for the Y14.5M-1994 standard is still going to be available for a while. If you are interested in obtaining certification to the 1994 standard, I recommend that you take the exam while it is still available."

 

[AndrewTT]

I plan on taking the 2009 test.

I can't believe that it is finally ready.

 

[giggity]

Some interesting parts from Y14.5.2 after a quick skim over:

"2.2.3 Equivalencies. Note that ASME Y14.5-2009 is not equivalent to ASME Y14.5M-1994. Successfully passing the ASME Y14.5-2009 examination does not confer certification to ASME Y14.5M-1994. Successfully passing the ASME Y14.5M-1994 examination does not confer certification to ASME Y14.5-2009."

ASME Y14.5-2009 Examination:
(1) 10% on scope, general dimensioning, symbology
(2) 30% on datum referencing
(3) 5% on form
(4) 5% on orientation
(5) 25% on location
(6) 20% on profile
(7) 5% on runout
For the ASME Y14.5-2009 examination, a candidate must achieve an overall grade of at least 78% and score at least 50% in each of the preceding categories.

Looks like there is still the 150 questions to do in 6 hrs.

So some quick math: 5% of 150 questions = 7.5 for each topic of form, orientation or runout. So miss 4 questions on runout and you fail the test!

 

[AndrewTT]

I'm taking it that you (giggity) purchased Y14.5.2 - 2017. Do you feel that this document will help you prepare for the test? Do I need it?

Thank you.

 

[giggity]

My work has a IHS license where I can download everything y14. Y14.5.2 is often said to be a waste of money. I don't believe you need it, but it might be nice to have because it has the individual topics from the standard that it expects you to know for the test. But that stuff can often be found other places. For instance, the application handbook from ASME's website has the topic list for the '94 test.

Link

They might update that for the 2009 test. I feel like Y14.5.2 is more of a legal document standardizing the whole certification processes for ASME rather than a tool for the individual such as yourself.

 

[giggity]

After further inspection, that topic list in the appendix of y14.5.2 is the table of contents for y14.5 minus the nonmandatory appendices expect B.

 

[AndrewTT]

I took the test today. Results not available for 15-30 days.

 

[greenimi]

Congrats. Which test did you take T or S?
Now you have to answer to all questions on this forum.......correctly.

 

[3DDave]

Why so long? Is there an essay section? Last I knew it was multi-guess computer test.

 

[pylfrm]

AndrewTT,

How often did you feel the answer they were likely looking for was not actually correct?

Any other comments?


pylfrm

 

[giggity]

Andrew,

I also signed up for the test next month. Anything stand out to you? Any areas or topics that you feel need to be focused on?

 

[AndrewTT]

I signed a form stating that I would not discuss the contents of the test so I can't really answer any questions about the test content.

My receipt from Prometric states that they will turn over my test to ASME within 15-30 days so that is the delay.

I took the technician test (I'm not eligible to take the senior test until 2020).

You have the ability to comment on all questions once you have completed the test. There were 4 questions that I made "suggestions" about.

 

[AndrewTT]

I would recommend bringing a set of soft ear plugs (this is the only style they will allow you to bring into the test room). The person taking a test on the other side of my divider was typing very loudly the entire time. Without my ear plugs I would have gone crazy.

When I say soft ear plugs I mean a set that can easily be verified that there is nothing hidden inside. Also they cannot be connected to each other with a band. They need to be two individual pieces. Prometric is very strict on their procedures.

 

[giggity]

How was lunch handled? Did you bring your own, do you go to another room, did they inspect your sandwich?

 

[AndrewTT]

My slot was 9AM-1PM. The clock runs continuously. There is no scheduled break and you won't be allowed to bring food or beverages into the test room. I suggest eating right before the test.

You can take bathroom breaks if you need to but the clock does not stop. If you want to step outside of the building for some fresh air a Prometric employee must accompany you. Also they will tell you that if you take frequent breaks or an extended break they will report that (suspicious) behavior to ASME.

Lastly do not bring any electronics or study materials into the building, they are not allowed.