Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences 14

[lacajun]

Fred, I missed the protests on campus. Would have been interesting to see. Paper bags, eh? They would have fit in good with the "aint's" at Saints games.

It would be interesting for you to talk with your old friends. M had great mental stability to carry on in such uncertain circumstances regarding her parents.

The few Iranians I've talked with say the country is decidedly worse, since the Shah's fall. Each country has to decide its own form of government. I'm happy to be in the USA, warts and all.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[cranky108]

Well yes it is my opinion. I doubt anyone would be expressing someone elses opinion, and no one knows it all well enough to express it. So you are very welcome to disagree.

For every system someone can say is bad, there was/is someone who gains from it. Besides slavery in this country evolved from indetured servents. These indetured servents that ran off from there contract prior to the completion, had there time extended by the courts.
For some people this system worked, because they had no money to pay for passage to this country.

If your objection is my comments about some people are better off being controlled, I understand. But don't denigh reality.

 

[patprimmer]

Cranky I actually agree with your opinion. You really missed my point.

The point is that no matter how strongly we believe in something, it is really arrogant to demand it must be right especially if others have just as strong a belief in a contrary opinion.

Regards
Pat
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[TenPenny]

Certainly, if you don't want your society to progress, and you want to stay stuck in the past and tradition, you're better off ensuring that half of your population isn't able to participate.

 

[TheTick]

Iran went from secular despotism (bad) to religious despotism (far worse). US voters would do well to take note.

 

[CalvinMortley]

Really unfortunate

 

[MusicEngineer]

Crank, Iran does not get credit for inventing zero.

 

[cranky108]

I am somewhat sure zero came from the middle east, but not from Iran (the present country).

An interesting comment I heard a few weeks ago, that many muslems, like many christions, don't read there holy book, that they trust what is told to them by there religon leaders. This sort of fits with millions of muslems being angry over a cartoon, but only after several days when they were informed by there religon leaders.

Scary how so many people could be controlled by some one person in todays time.

There are followers, leaders, and us lost others.

 

[EngineerErrant]

The point is that no matter how strongly we believe in something, it is really arrogant to demand it must be right especially if others have just as strong a belief in a contrary opinion.

This approach only works if both opinions are equally valid. If I assert something that is verifiably untrue, it doesn't matter how passionately I assert it, it doesn't make someone arrogant to tell me I'm wrong. Similarly, if I make an assertion based on invalid logic, although the assertion might be true, my reasoning for such may be dismissed.

The statement "Some fields are not very suitable for women’s nature," given as justification for this decision (as per Abolfazl Hasani the first article), is both verifiably untrue and poorly-reasoned. As such, we can confidently say that this was a stupid, stupid thing to do.

"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams

 

[TenPenny]

cranky108, I believe that's how North American society operates, too, people react by what they are told to think/say/do by the media, or their spiritual advisor. People are expected to be outraged by someone's birth certificate, or tax returns, or some other trivial thing. It does make it easier to steal the nation blind, when you distract the masses with trivialities.

 

[rconnor]

People are trying to rationalize this decision?

It's not a difference in culture that we just don't understand, it's hatred and bigotry wrapped in the shade of "traditional religious views" (which by extension becomes "traditional cultural views") or hatred and bigotry fueld by "traditional religious/cultural views". There is no rational discussion you can have on taking away women's (or any other groups) right to partake in something that will improve their lives (and the countries as well).

And for those of you that think this is a foreign concept, reserved only for extremist religious countries like Iran, need to remind themselves of the damn chick-a-flick stupidity going on in America. This is directly relatable to the gay rights issue in America.

 

[TomDOT]

cranky, you seem to be bringing out the historian in me. "First World" was the "Western" countries. "Second World" was the Soviet Union and associated countries. "Third World" was everyone else. The usefulness of the terms kinda fell apart when the Soviet Union did.

The origin of zero - you can make an argument or Babylon using a proto-zero (which is the Middle East, but waaaay pre-islam.) The best argument for a discrete zero used in numerical calculations instead of a placeholder (used as we do today) gives the title to India.

 

[patprimmer]

Well India is in Asia or the East and has only had a significant Muslim population since plundered by the Moguls in 1526

Regards
Pat
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[graybeach]

It was not so long ago that here in the US, there were virtually no women in engineering and science. In the 1970s when I was in junior high, it was a big deal when a girl wanted to take shop class. Now there are a few in the engineering rank and file getting paid 90 cents for every dollar and equally qualified man makes. There are even fewer women in upper management, and that number seems to be shrinking. And now with the US's various assaults on women's rights, I feel like women are on very shaky ground.

 

[TomDOT]

There are multiple reasons for the "90 cents on the dollar" - gender bias is the obvious one. Another is that women are much less likely to negotiate on salary, or request raises. When I started this job, I negotiated up 5% from the initial offer. One negotiation meant 5% higher salary for my entire time here.

Do some women negotiate? Absolutely. Just a lower percentage than men.

 

[graybeach]

No doubt that there are differences in negotiation styles. But there also can be vestiges of the attitude that women don't need as much because they are not the main bread winner. And now, maybe women should be content with less and consider themselves lucky they don't live in Iran.

 

[rb1957]

"maybe women should be content with less and consider themselves lucky they don't live in Iran" ... similarly most men too ...

 

[EngineerErrant]

And now, maybe women should be content with less and consider themselves lucky they don't live in Iran.

I sure hope this is tongue-in-cheek. That's flamebait, there.

"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams

 

[graybeach]

Sorta meant tongue in cheek, but I do think there is a certain overall sense of justification for paying women less. Look at Peggy on Mad Men. She considers herself lucky to be making more than the secretaries, but was not meant to imagine making the same as men. Vestiges of this logic still exist today in the minds of managers.

I fees so sad for the millions of normal, rational Iranian people who are caught up in all of this. Why don't more people in the US see their fate as the logical conclusion to our own push toward theocracy? OK - I'll stop now.

 

[cranky108]

Tenpenny, I also said somepeople would do better if they were controled. Maybe there would be fewer shooting over drugs (Something that is sticking with me today).

I have heard it said in Germany they elect the loudest loud mouth. Which appears to be the standard world wide (sad to say). We are being led by the media, goverment officials, and other influnces. It is education of the facts in Iran, and here that is the problem. People will make decisions on there bisas without the facts.

In the past, many engineers came from farming families. They saw how things worked, because they had to fix them. Many women did not work on farm equipment.
In more recent times engineering education had to change as fewer students had the fix it background (the students changed). This allowed more women without the fix it background to suceed. (Or so it appears to me, not that I am an expert on this, but I have to try to understand this in my head).