Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences 14

[KENAT]

Trouble is there is a link between economics and security - so sometimes even by your definition the line gets blurred Pat.

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[patprimmer]

Of course,but it should only be the security component that is considered.

I am sure the canals issues are both, but more economic but still I can see a case for maintaining stability there.

The pirate issues are both, but much more about security. The middle East is about oil and is economic despite lies told (or maybe intel mistakes made if you believe in flying pigs) about security to justify an invasion.

Now I am going to be really controversial. Vietnam was about trade routes from Laos and Heroin trafficking via the Mekong River with lies about security as justification.

Regards
Pat
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[KENAT]

I don't know, the potential impact on the economy of oil shortages could be significant enough to constitute a security threat.

Not saying that covers all or even most recent Mid East conflicts, just saying it's one of those fuzzy areas.

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[patprimmer]

Lack of oil for civilian use is not a security threat. I think the USA can still buy enough oil at the asking price without military action to influence negotiations. Yes it might cost more, but that is commercial, not security.

If prices go up because others also want to buy it, well that's a free market and what the USA claims to fight for. It would be kinda hypocritical to fight for peoples freedom so that you can undermine it yourself.

Regards
Pat
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[Twoballcane]

“Trouble is there is a link between economics and security”
I have to agree with Kenat. Everywhere the USA goes it has always been to squash security threats and to stabilize the economy in that country. WWII is a great example when Germany and Japan dragged the US in to war and then at the end of the war the US planted a US Military base at each country for security reason and the byproduct was that the two countries prospered economically afterwards. The citizens in both countries prospered with business, better schools…etc. Now for the Korean War and Vietnam War, these were Communist backed threats, however, South Korea faired a better economic growth than North Korea. Just because (like a religion) North Korea citizens believe that their leader is benevolent and righteous. Vietnam and the surrounding countries are prospering too, even under dictatorship. Now it seems, in my opinion, that the leaders of countries that rule their people with religious rhetoric do not care about their citizens well being. The leaders are so brains washed with religious prophecies that they feel that they are the superior country and thus capable of horrific acts because they feel that God is on their side. Just like Germany, Japan, and Korea, the US is trying to stop the madness and free the country from religious fanatics so that the citizens can grow their economy. This cannot happen without a strong military present. Once their economy is growing, the security threat against the US will decline. In the words of Rodney King “Can’t we all get along?!”.


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”
"People get promoted when they provide value and when they build great relationships"

 

[TheTick]

"The U.S. cares about democracy in countries that are not important." --Fareed Zakaria

 

[rb1957]

there's either a "doesn't" missing, as in "US doesn't care ..."
or delete the "not" and add "only" ... "US only cares ... that are not important"

the US has it's interests and tries to protect them.

Should it try to project it's Bill of Rights (as amended/updated now to include women) onto others ?

 

[TheTick]

Nope. That's at least the gist of the quote. Saw it on the Daily Show (Jon Stewart). The idea of the discussion was that the US will not destabilize countries for the sake of democracy if the current relationship is too important. We'll tolerate anything for a profit.

 

[lacajun]

Now I am going to be really controversial. Vietnam was about trade routes from Laos and Heroin trafficking via the Mekong River with lies about security as justification.

A friend's father-in-law fled Vietnam with his family to avoid death at the hands of the communists. He was a doctor. He is a staunch Republican because he detests and loathes communism and knows the path to it. He lived and escaped it. I cannot guarantee this but he would probably disagree with your assessment. Not being controversial but injecting someone else's experience in Vietnam during that time.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[ScottyUK]

twoballcane,

Germany has always been a prosperous and powerful nation, since before the US ever existed and certainly long before it decided to open a base there to engage itself in the cold war with the USSR. I'm not sure it is a good example of US involvement being a factor in the nation becoming prosperous.

 

[beej67]

And if wre not involved, who should be, the UN?

That was exactly the entire point of the UN. It's why it exists. It's why it was formed.

The USA has two moats on its eastern and western borders, each a quarter or more the width of the entire planet. Nobody's invading us. The only threat to our national security is the dollar collapsing under our debt load, from us spending too much money trying to police the world.



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[patprimmer]

Pamela

While your friends inlaws may or may not have had a legitimate fear, before the Americans became involved, Vietnam was a civil war where the majority of the indigenous people where trying to overthrow a foreign colonial power who had set up an elite ruling class that was a different religion and culture to the vast majority.

Such wars normally result in some retaliations afterward, no matter which side wins and I am sure prominent members of that elite ruling class would have been targeted, however Vietnam is now a peaceful and united country with the vast majority of former South Vietnamese citizens safe and well. Ho Chi Minh did not apply the domino theory and continue to impose his ideology on surrounding countries once he achieved his goal of liberating part of his country from the French.

I would think, based on their own history, the USA should actually have had some sympathy for them in their efforts to overthrow a colonial government so the vast majority of the citizens could install a government of an ideology of their choosing, especially when Ho Chi Minh initially had a good relationship with the USA due to him being an allie in the war against Japan.

Regards
Pat
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[TheTick]

ScottyUK:
Germany did not exist as a nation until the 1870s.

 

[ScottyUK]

By that logic I guess it ceased to exist during the period 1945 - 1990 too. I should have started that sentence with "The area of land occupied by present day Germany has...", but it seemed a little pedantic...

Anyway, the point is still true regarding the disconnect between US bases established on "the area of land occupied by present-day Germany" in the years following World War 2 and the economic prosperity of the people occupying the aforementioned area of land.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Words like "contest" and "pissing" spring to mind. This discussion is so similar to the stuff that went on when I was in the 6th form. A boys school though, so there was none of these "female" issues.



- Steve

 

[ScottyUK]

 

[cranky108]

Sometimes I think some of these so called "female" issues are just made up just to sell something. After all to they sell a lot of finger nail colors in Iran?
So maybe there thinking avoids some of the social problems we have.

We could avoid some of the social problems we have if we changed the driving age to 21. But don't want to.

I guess the bottom line is people should vote with there feet, as well as there money on which system they like.