Look Toto, there is an Engineering Union. 31

[KENAT]

Do we have to start this debate all over again? I think the last thread got deleted and most of them don't achieve anything.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[KENAT]

thread765-235838 memory not what it was apprantly, not deleted but still fairly pointless.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[lansford]

I would be happy to pay IEEE dues of $1,000.00 per year if it took care of its members the way the AMA takes care of its Docs.
JIM

 

[cranky108]

Instead the IEEE charges you much less, and sends you several e-mails for things you really don't care about.
I think they also sell your mailing address

But the coloring books are nice.

 

[ewh]

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[HDS]

lets see what happen now that the UAW union owns Chrysler. They already agreed not to strike.

 

[swertel]

No kidding. The union now has to worry about the bottom line and profitability. HMMM? Conflict of interest?

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[vc66]

Haha, swertel.

Tell me about it.

"Do we cut costs by being more efficient?"

"Nah, just don't put those bolts in there and cut that corner. They'll never know."

V

 

[GregLocock]

Eevn funnier, the UAW has some control over the labor for two of their new acquisitions competitors.

This should be very funny indeed.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[PhonoPhilo]

I dropped my membership in ASME. They do little or nothing for the benefit of the membership other than to create technical standards and forums for technical presenations. Sounds like IEEE is pretty much the same. Publishing standards is certainly important, but why not help improve the quality of life for the membership (e.g. lobbying congress to clamp down on H-1B visas and limit the number of engineering grads, providing job placement assistance to unemployed engineers, providing info on how to start up a business, educating the public on the importance of engineering in maintaining civilized life, etc.)? As somebody said above, I'd gladly pay more to belong to an engineering society if they actually helped me to remain employed.

 

[moltenmetal]

PhonoPhilo: you might say that you'd be willing to join under those circumstances, but when membership is voluntary you'd actually be better off NOT joining and letting others pay for that lobbying and advocacy work. That way, you save the membership fees. THAT'S why the lobbying you want will never be done effectively: the benefits of the lobbying work accrue to both members AND non-members, yet only the members PAY for it.

Even in Canada where we have a more comprehensive licensure program than you do in the US, the licensing bodies are prevented from doing effective lobbying on behalf of their licensees- and membership in the advocacy bodies who CAN do this lobbying is voluntary. The advocacy bodies therefore have limited membership and can't afford to do anything.

For some reason, the doctors and to a lesser extent the lawyers don't suffer from this problem. Perhaps it's because unlike engineering, both of these are "true" professions- practicing without a license in either case lands you not only with a fine, but in jail- with a very good likelihood of being caught.

 

[cranky108]

Why would anyone want fewer engineering grads? There are so many enginnering jobs being unfilled, and mainly because universitys don't teach, or discurage people from those fields.
And in fact there is now a shortage a technictions, because so many of them are doing the eazy stuff for the engineers.

 

[KENAT]

"Why would anyone want fewer engineering grads"

Well, given laws of supply and demand, because those there are will get paid more.

May not be best for industry or the country/world but good for those with the degree.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[Pmatherne]

crank109: There are not that many jobs out there for graduating engineers. Unless you have 2 years experience, which most probably will not.

Though I am against unions, I do wish the US would restrict the use of the term "engineer"

The reason I dislike unions is I have seen what they do. I use to work at a grain elevator and they had to lay off people and guess who got cut. The non-union people. Though the point of irony about being non-union while on that job was I got paid 20% more and generally ended up with the better assignments, if you could call it that

 

[moltenmetal]

Why would anyone want fewer engineering grads?

In Canada, according to the 2006 census, 2/3 of those persons with engineering degrees were employed outside engineering occupations. That's per the Engineering and Technology Labour Market Study completed last year by Engineers Canada.

That group of 2/3 didn't all leave the profession to become patent lawyers and medical researchers...

That HARDLY sounds like a profession with any kind of a labour shortage! In fact, to me it's plain evidence of a profession with a MASSIVE over-supply - an over-supply which has led to commoditization of our services and the destruction of what once WAS a profession!

"Engineering jobs going unfilled" in my experience is a baseless statement. There is NO shortage of engineers in Canada. Plenty of hype and media hay is made from localized shortages of particular skillsets, particularly in cyclical industries, but these sorts of shortages are VERY different than a true labour shortage.

Cyclical industries don't hire adequate numbers of young engineers in the "bust" times, and hence come up short of experienced people during "boom" times. You can't fix that problem by cranking out more grads. In fact, you can't really solve that problem via generalized immigration either (Canada is proof positive of that!).

 

[cranky108]

If you see that I'm not in a cyclical industry, and I don't get paid as well as in the high tech semiconductor industries, but the industry is stable and in need of more engineers.
So if you like high voltage, and can work with three phase voltage, there are jobs.

However you maybe right as those other engineers in the other department down the hall don't seem as happy.

So what's with the shortage of civil engineers that I hear about?

 

[moltenmetal]

No shortage of civil engineers that I can see. Shortage of civil engineers with 10-15 years experience, because 10-15 yrs ago nobody was hiring fresh grad civil engineers? Sure- that I'd buy...

No labour shortage- only succession planning problems, and firms who don't like to hire young and TRAIN, because successive recessions proved it to be no longer necessary!

 

[PhonoPhilo]

My experience is in the manufacturing sector. From what I've seen here in the US, most of the new engineering jobs out there are for lower level positions with 2-3 years of experience. Employer expectations are extremely high and salaries are low. Jobs for new grads and people with senior level/management experience are rare as hen's teeth. I don't see things getting any better.

Nevertheless, universities continue to pump out engineering grads. Where are those people going to work? China? India?

 

[ScottyUK]

Phonophilo,

Some time soon the universities and students who turned their backs on the 'old' industries like power generation & transmission and the heavy process industries like steel and chemicals will wake up to the fact that the old industries are desperate for people with the right education, training, and experience. There are jobs there, but the education system is producing the wrong product. I don't exclusively blame the universities - the industries created much of the problem themselves through underinvestment and recruitment freezes a decade or two ago.


----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[PhonoPhilo]

Scotty, over here in the US, I don't think it is necessarily because of the universities turing out the wrong product. It is primarily because of the bum enconomy and the opportunities to make a quick buck by outsourcing design and manufacturing to Asia. There there just aren't enough engineering jobs to go around.

Nevertheless, our government and engineering societies are trying to encourage young people to seek careers in engineering. The universities continue to pump out engineering grads. Everyont thinks that if we make more engineers, then we will some-how regain former glory and lead the world again. If we don't consider what's going on after engineering school and implement some changes, then we will have a lot of recent grad engineers working at Starbucks and McDonalds rather than designing and creating things. It really doesn't make sense to me.