Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08 20

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07

SF Charlie
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[gonefishing2]

I think so, and the red pipe is on top of Supra. We can see end of open pipe on top of Supra in other pic.

If you go thru the pain of looking back in the forum, you can find some nice overlays of parking spots in relation to where they are at lobby or ground level, along with lots of other good orientation stuff

 

[Optical98]

But wouldn't you see those tail-lights on the CRV, they're not high and wrap around the side?

 

[zebraso]

BTW, the chair looks like a non-hermitically sealed AC compressor to me......

You can tell that it's not still sealed? That's some powerful perception.

Maybe the line got re-crimped before it broke free. Look closer!

Edit note: I'm not being sarcastic, I actually get the joke. This stuff never comes out right in texting. Just in case.

 

[Demented]

Well shit.
Dumb dumb here was wrong.

Right rear.

I'm so confused right now. Them be airbags, dust, or a sunvisor in a parking garage?

 

[gonefishing2]

Oh shit, those air bags look deployed

 

[gonefishing2]

Optical98, Please post a link to that video again, I need to watch it closer....

 

[Demented]

Has to be from the collapse. Why would the passenger side curtains deploy with no obvious crumpling of the areas one would expect? Those definitely are deployed airbags. Could even be a sunshade inside?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmleL6I2T5M

 

[gonefishing2]

I think it is an old GE Mil Spec Compressor from a Trane, back in the day when "It is hard to stop a Trane" was a valid advertising statement......

 

[gonefishing2]

Demented, Could that red pipe on top of car caused the air bag to deploy? Could be sunshade too...

But sure looks like two different air bags to me......

 

[zebraso]

Car vs column eh?

I'm not too sure where I am on car vs column. Seeing that many cars parked to so many columns and knowing soccer mom's in SUV gives me the willies. Having said that I wonder more about the long term effect or repeated insults and the column integrity (assume you read into that the approved repaired techniques) from otherwise nonthreatening incident. And maybe it was not assessed correctly in the end. We trust that the last part cannot happen. And then factor in the frequency and probability of some columns to get hit based on traffic lanes of higher speed (i.e. down the entrance way). And it boils down to maybe a certain column got hit one too many times at just too high of a speed. It's unlikely but I think about it anyway. What kind of event could be set in motion here? Is it even possible?

 

[Demented]

So, that 1000G storage tank for fuel.

These were posted before, taken by one of the crane operators on site. Of everything removed, they left that rubble pile, and those 3 beams. The rubble pile stood out before to me but I passed it off as nothing. I know the car thing is more interesting however.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[Demented]

Demented, Could that red pipe on top of car caused the air bag to deploy? Could be sunshade too...

But sure looks like two different air bags to me......

I highly doubt it. Usually a massive jolt to a parked vehicle (such as a building collapse), can make the tilt sensor send a "hey we flipped over" signal to the ECU and deploy all the airbags. But airbags and Honda are a different engineering failure thread on their own. I have personally seen Honda's leave the factory with airbags, but no means of the interior trim or dashboard allowing the bags to deploy through (This was in 2008-2010). It's very likely Honda changed to make it super easy for airbags to deploy in light of the whole ZDX fiasco where they missed almost all the laser etching.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[gonefishing2]

Demented, Which leads to fuel leak causing an explosion in that area, under ground?

 

[Demented]

Per the 2018 structural report, the tank was rusted out and needed to be replaced again. 2nd time, and the contractor who replaced it the first time was advised to use a fiberglass style or non-rusting tank. So, fuel leaking (diesel), although wont cause an explosion, definitely isn't going to be good if it's leaking around a tar kettle that may have been left on. There was reports of a nasty odor right?

 

[zebraso]

Them be airbags, dust, or a sunvisor in a parking garage?

I thought I saw the tidy bowl man in a rowboat in that pic. Ok I'm done with humor for now.

 

[Demented]

I'm putting my inconel hat on for this one.

What if more stress throughout the night was constantly put on that badly deteriorated garage access ramp as more and more people were coming home, and what we don't see in the TikTok video is a collapse of sections of the parking garage ramp?

That area was heavily spalled. That steel beam, which was an amazing idea, which was also reported to have been rusted out. What if that was holding weight it wasn't intended to anymore after drilling of roof anchors damaged a poorly repaired, and poured before inspection, concrete beam on the roof. The one holding up the cooling tower, was above this area too, yes? Is that why the TikTok video pans up briefly?

 

[gonefishing2]

Is that new concrete beam directly over the ramp area?

Edit: Cooling Tower is directly over service drive near Optical98’s pictures

 

[Colostruct]

Food for thought.

Maybe 250000 lb on that column. Assuming 20 ft OC columns. 12 floors. 65 PSF MINIMUM dead load. I’m thinking that compression with a 16” sq column would take way more force to topple than delivered by a Honda in a parking lot even if the connections were gone. Friction counts too!

Assuming friction of concrete to concrete is .4 (low). We have to place some 100000 lb laterally to move the column.

Someone want to check my math? These are just back of the envelope idea of the possible load on each column.

I believe failure of the columns required significant contribution from other structural elements to generate enough load to fail.

The caveat would be IF these columns were way more deteriorated than photos I’ve seen.

 

[Optical98]

Demented, that red beam is haunting, because we know once the east end of it lost it's footing, that huge unit took a long bite out of
the #4 units, pulling down everything in it's path.

 

[Demented]

I'm still trying to find the exact beam that was replaced. The field reports are not fully, or correctly filled out and it seems half of the pages are missing. That could just be the parking ramp; a 20ft section give or take.


Edit: @colostruct
That's why I've been trying to add up all the weight of the added layers of tile, marble, etc. There was a lot more gravity on those columns than there should have been in spots.

Edit 2: @Optical98
If you look at the beam too, those welds are anything but acceptable. There was no joint prep it seems, and the single pass of 7018 seems to heavily favor the plate. I doubt there is any meaningful penetration on the beam itself. The likelyhood of the mill scale having been ground away so white metal is visible is very slim too. On the beach, you leave that millscale on. It helps with the corrosion resistance.