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Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09 139

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SFCharlie

SFCharlie

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Hi MaudSTL,

Great idea on the quotes spreadsheet!
I would like to add a few please.

These are all going to be referencing the very strong smell coming from the fires from the collapse, it may need it's own category.

June 26, 2021


As white smoke or steam streamed out an overpowering – and unexplained smell.
A bitter, sulfur-like smell hung in the air.

“The stench is very thick,” Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said.

------------------------------------

June 25, 2021


DR. Sanjay Gupta to Anderson Cooper

GUPTA: You know, I see you have the mask on and we were just commenting, you can really smell the acrid sort of heavy metals sort of smell in the air. I mean, how dangerous is that, do you think and also for the other residents who live around here? CNN interview cooper

------------------------------------

July 3, 2021

Nicolás Vazquez


We were coming back from dinner. I parked the car, as always, in the garage and we heard a very loud noise but we did not understand what was happening. After 6 or 7 seconds we got on the elevator and it moved when it was stopping in the lobby of the building. At that moment a very strong dust and a very loud roar started.
The smoke, dust and " unbearable weird smell " also prevented them from breathing normally.
 
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Spartan5 said:
But I’ve not seen a single conclusive or tangible piece of evidence regarding anything being initiated on the roof. Not a one. It’s all been loosely supported conjecture at best. And otherwise imaginations running wild at worst.
Click to expand...
There are multiple reports of the initial collapse beginning at the roof:
111 said noises came from roof first
611 said cracking came from ceiling downwards
711 ring camera appears failure from above first in doorway area
904 said noises came from roof and they fell floor by floor to the 3rd floor
Finally, those two blue flashes of light in the x10 stack on the security camera footage to me look like electrical, as if something is falling through the x10 stack cutting the electrical wires from inside (maybe the HVAC unit?)
 
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MaudSTL

Note worthy quote:

July 26, 2021 2:56pm


Lt. Col. Golan Vach, commander of the Israeli Defense Forces’ National Rescue Unit

The primary reason for that, he said, was the way the building collapsed was so unusual.

“It was not like an earthquake or urban missiles when part of the building is broken or falls down and you have a lot of voids and holes and tunnels that are created,” he said.

“This building collapsed almost as if it was intended. When they imploded the other part, it imploded in the perfect shape.”

Then, he paused for a moment, clearly shaken by the memory, before adding almost under his breath, “It's a terrible word to say, ‘perfect.’”


@WendyRhodesFL
 
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Regarding the "sulfur" or "heavy metals" odors, I thought I read somewhere that a Tesla in the garage had caught fire as a result of the collapse. I'm guessing it would be the batteries that were on fire and perhaps the source of the odors.
 
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>>...Link your source please.<<
Just recall reading it early on in the event.

>>..Why would a Tesla smell any different when burning?..<<
No idea mate.

Carry on.
 
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So far in my research, acrid or sulfur smelling smoke can be caused by:

Natural Gas
Sulfuric Acid
Diesel Fuel
Fertilizer/Nitrates

There were plans to install Natural Gas lines in the garage area, but was it ever done?
The Fuel Tank and Reserve tank, did they contain Diesel Fuel? They were both underground tho...no evidence as yet if they were compromised.

Natural gas and propane are odorless, but gas companies inject them with a chemical called mercaptan that gives them a sulfur smell—like rotten eggs—to alert residents to a gas leak.

The Fuel Tank possibly exploding is a consideration:

 
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Optical98 said:
Link your source please.
Click to expand...

I’m the source. That fire didn’t begin until the Sunday following the collapse and took 6 days to extinguish.

Optical98 said:
So far in my research, acrid or sulfur smelling smoke can be caused by:

Natural Gas
Sulfuric Acid
Diesel Fuel
Fertilizer/Nitrates

There were plans to install Natural Gas lines in the garage area, but was it ever done?
The Fuel Tank and Reserve tank, did they contain Diesel Fuel? They were both underground tho...no evidence as yet if they were compromised.
Click to expand...


The below grade soil and groundwater have a very pungent rotten egg odor from high levels of sulphur dioxide.
 
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Optical98 said:
Why would a Tesla smell any different when burning?
Click to expand...

The dramatic fire from a Tesla is from the traction battery pack. I don't know the exact chemistry Tesla use, but the electrolyte is going to be a lithium salt dissolved in an organic solvent, with thin aluminium and copper foil electrodes, a metal (some combination of lithium with cobalt, manganese, and nickel) oxide paste on the cathode, and graphite on the anode. That's the typical contents of a lithium-ion cell, and despite Musk's flashy press events, I'm pretty sure they are mostly just standard Panasonic cells for now (produced by Tesla, with only minor customisation). It's going to be generating interesting gasses.
 
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Santos81

What are you the Source for? I asked for a source on there being a Tesla in the garage.

"That fire didn’t begin until the Sunday following..."

There was smoke on day one and evidence of fire as well.

Fire_fvdnt9.jpg


Fire_3_cv0f9w.jpg


ScreenHunter_508_wlyqou.png
 
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Not to be unfriendly, but I gotta be honest...I don't think post-collapse observations of smells and fires belong in a timeline of witness statements that ends at the building collapse. Maybe we should have a separate spreadsheet for USAR/NIST observations. I would be willing to make a spreadsheet to capture that kind of thing, if you think it would help your inquiries.

As for what Nicolas Vazquez supposedly smelled at the time of the collapse, I have found no quote by Vazquez that talks about an odor of any type. However, I have included a reference to it in the Notes column of the witness spreadsheet in Row 13. Personally, until Vazquez tells us otherwise, I think the author of the Caras piece was trying to punch up the drama by referring to a detail from the AP story. If you examine the Caras piece, you'll see the "insoportable olor raro" is not included in the quote that is attributed to Vazquez, which is a transcript of his WhatsApp audio message. If you review the actual WhatsApp audio message, you will find no reference to an "olor."

>>>>>Edit: In thinking about it further, I had another idea. What if the USAR/NIST observations were a second tab in this same workbook? Besides smells and fires, what other post-collapse observations would be good to document?
 
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Optical98 said:
Please add your source of that a Tesla was in the garage.
Click to expand...

I didn't claim there was one there. You asked why a Tesla fire might smell different, I gave you a rough summary of the chemistry found in the giant battery pack, which could possibly generate some odd smells.
 
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MaudSTL

There were and are plenty of post-collapse observations being made by NIST. I am certain they are aware of the odors that were noted by several sources between
June 25th and June 27th.

Why am I not surprised you are acting as gatekeeper?

And yes, I already have my own file.

Edit: And your quotes are not "witness statements", they were survivor interviews.
 
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Well lo and behold, there is a permanent ladder down from the penthouse roof to the middle section of the 12th floor roof. This is the only way for a roofer to access this part of the roof. There are no doors to this part of the roof. This means that a davit hoist (aka, roof hoist) was necessary to get materials down to this section of the 12th floor roof. Thank you again, rodface, for the Bing imagery.

Ladder_down_to_roof_of_middle_section_idllnc.png
 
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Rodface,

Yes, I've seen that footage, even if it were still there, that space would be on the wrong side of the parking garage, for the initial fire. There wasn't any smoke coming from that side, look at my pics above.



 
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Cheers. I can't figure out the routes that one would take to get to various parts of the roof. Are those large stairs accessed from *inside* the building, or are they an access from the *outside*? Haven't looked at the new plan set in a while, perhaps it makes it clear.

Also, apologies if this was covered before, but what is the purpose of the open concrete (?) structure on that area of roof? Highlighted green below. It almost looks like an afterthought. Is it somehow bracing that part of the enclosed passageway?

beams_fuuzez.png
 
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