Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09 139

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08

SF Charlie
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[Santos81]

What are you the Source for? I asked for a source on there being a Tesla in the garage.

"That fire didn’t begin until the Sunday following..."

There was smoke on day one and evidence of fire as well

None of those images are from day one. The first image was taken on June 27, just after the “deep fire” broke out. The latter two were taken several days after. I don’t believe the media was briefed on the exact source beyond crushed Li-Ion batteries. I was told by several sources who were on site, a Tesla was parked next to the MKIV Supra visible in the MDFD garage video.

Well lo and behold, there is a permanent ladder down from the penthouse roof to the middle section of the 12th floor roof. This is the only way for a roofer to access this part of the roof. There are no doors to this part of the roof

There was a door.

 

[Murph 9000]

There are no doors to this part of the roof.

That's very likely untrue. The fact you've not found a photo showing the door proves nothing. The door is underneath the elevator machine room overhang, according to the plans, so not visible from most angles. Given the need for easy access to the machine room, it's highly unlikely they would have omitted or removed that door. It's also a fire safety thing, as firefighters must be able to easily access the machines for rescue purposes.

 

[MarkBoB2]

Santosi81 and Murph 9000, I agree with you. I was misled by the overhang of the elevator room.

 

[MaudSTL]

Why am I not surprised you are acting as gatekeeper?

Collapse witnesses may or may not be the right term, but I think it’s been obvious that the scope of work I have been focused on this past month has been to find and sequence clues from witness statements about what happened in the building on the day of its collapse.

I have never offered to expand the scope of my contribution beyond the day of the collapse, so I am not clear on how task completion can be confused with gatekeeping expanded scope.

Whoever is interested in capturing USAR/NIST observations during the recovery period following the collapse may wish to take charge of that new scope of work.

 

[Optical98]

Markbob,

It looks to be only a standard sized door tho. Depending on what equipment was needed, would it fit thru those areas, if they needed a kettle I doubt they'd put it on the elevator.

 

[Optical98]

Maud

I guess I thought you were creating it as a database of articles and quotes for us to all use.

It's fine as it is.

 

[Optical98]

Santos,

"None of those images are from day one."

Source with dates.

 

[Demented]

Edit: Didn't mean to post yet without description.

Don't know where exactly they mounted this, or how to those columns/beam, but this may explain the tearout on the side if the column.

Trying to find an explanation for the trunnion shaped tearout we see on these columns. My thinking is the unit was anchored via wire cable and ripped the whole damn assembly off in the collapse. Huge holes for what it'd be, but i can't really see even a 1/4" tapcon not doing decent damage when driven by hammer drill or impact on suspect concrete.

 

[JStructsteel]

@ Thermopile. What do those anchors and the installation have to do with the collapse anyway? Is the thought they used the wrong anchor and it collapsed?

 

[Demented]

2021-466-plans.pdf that they released. It's the electrical work plans for the roof that was going on along side the roof repair and anchor installation. Seems just simply disconnecting and reconnecting work around the roofers for safety, but replacing damaged or broken things and fixing wiring issues before reconnecting it. Passed it up as simply one of the most normal looking plans on this building. Page E3.

I still have my doubts about this causing the tearout we see though, but work was likely done drilling in that exact location. Would they have used the same 3/4" anchors? I'd highly doubt that, but I've never dealt with unistrut. Looks like a poor man's v block.

 

[Optical98]

LOL, this pic tripped me up for a second --

 

[Demented]

David Copperfield up to shenanigans again?

Has anyone had any luck with with finding more crane permits from between 05/01/21 and the day of the collapse? I'm still waiting on FOIA requests.

A lift of sorts was used to lift tar in buckets to the roof. One resident complained of it being lifted over her balcony and tar was dripping. Some safety concerns over the tar tanks being on the Collin's Ave side so them not wanting to move the tar for worker safety.

Other than one day I've found, there doesn't really seem to be any consecutive days on record of a crane being on site. Could be wrong, but it does seem to be like a lot of no.

@Thermopile
After over 40% water saturation and damage to the roof structure on that odd little roof section being a known fact, you'd think I would have noticed that.
So I wonder, were more roof drains in the plans for Morabito?

 

[JStructsteel]

@ Thermopile I think it means we are all grasping for straws to stay relevant on this thread.

 

[Optical98]

Demented,

I'm just trying to help the Roof Team with their hypothesis...

10 extra rolls of tar paper, a Boat and a Tar Kettle.... go on Spar you do this better than me

j/k y'all

Edit: Photo source WTVR.com

 

[Nukeman948]

Now you guys are blaming the electricians? Do you really think we would use a 60 amp three phase disconnect for residential AC units? Mount unistrut with 3/4 inch anchors to a concrete column? LOL.


LOL.

 

[AusG]

Counting sides on 812-sided hexagons

 

[Demented]

Yeah but sometimes you eventually find the short straw.

Just hear me out here, because we have a really good proven history at this point of incompetence.

There were reports of construction noises. What if that's because there was construction? More unpermmited construction in the middle of the night. I may have brought this up before, or thought twice about it, but only bring this up because I have witnessed this multiple times, and know people who partake in these activities in Miami condos. Sometimes shady contractors live in these units as they work on them, renovating them while the owner is out of state. It's summer, so no snow bird is going to be down here. If this were December, the death tool would have been likely twice as bad. Anyway, these people regularly work at night. It pisses the neighbors off, but good luck with calling the cops or a town building official. Permits, and permit applications carry the bolded text forbidding the trash chute from being used for construction/demolition debris removal. One night a few months ago there was massive banging from a unit behind me. Sounded like stuff being demolished. By morning time the front of the building was littered with broken up kitchen and torn up carpet that was left outside on the lawn for the property management and village to deal with.

How heavy of an object would need to fall from each floor over the trash chute location to initiate slab failure?

@Nukeman, I aint blamin' the sparky's either. I'm pretty damn sure I was in the middle of poking a hole in one of my own theories. Well not really, but just removing a large portion of what could have been a previous but failed structural repair. You can shoot yourself in the foot and still win a marathon technically. Just damn near impossible at that point.


Maybe it's just because I had to teach a man in the industry for longer than I've been alive today about using a grinder to grind the shank of a broken bolt to a couple of flats so you can use a wrench to back it off, but I have a serious distrust of this labor force in ocean front construction. I figured out who's been destroying the drill chucks and using channel locks on them though.

Edit: At the very least I hope some major changes to inspection, engineering, construction, renovation, and permitting processes come to this area soon. Who can honestly say the shoddy work and illegal construction is not an issue?

 

[Optical98]

One has to wonder why folks that consider this "case closed" or "irrelevant", keep visiting this thread... there are many other threads one may read.

 

[Demented]

One has to wonder why folks that consider this "case closed" or "irrelevant", keep visiting this thread... there are many other threads one may read.

Better yet, one has to wonder why folks who seem to be against FMEA enter the forensic engineering area.


Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[zebraso]

tar paper, a Boat and a Tar Kettle

all sitting on one spot. Although that does show how close the bay is at that point. Not so much for East and North towers.... In case anyone has not looked at a map.