Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09 139

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08

SF Charlie
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[SFCharlie]

LOL, this pic tripped me up for a second --

Shivered your timbers, did it. OK, we need a new column for weighty things on the roof...
Let's see, a boat?


SF Charlie
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[Optical98]

Regarding punching shear pool deck takes out first floor theory, why didn't the eastern shear wall hold? We see that columns north of the western shear wall fell, but it still stood. That eastern shear wall ended up all the way over by the western one. Strange physics...

 

[SFCharlie]

wonder why folks who seem to be against FMEA enter the forensic engineering area.

...couple o' things
I think it's Federal Emergency Management Agency?
I think it's the National Institute of Standards and Technology that is doing, (and has been doing for some time,) forensic engineering


SF Charlie
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[253RWD]

Murph_9000 Came across this picture the other day and thought might solve the door question. Hopefully it uploads.

 

[zebraso]

why didn't the eastern shear wall hold

It held one sense. It was still together pretty much and recognizable. I'm guessing the difference is the east slice that fell last was too thin to resist. Everyone was afraid the other one was going to fall while they were in rescue mode. And fall in the planes they were not designed to resist.

 

[Optical98]

SF Charlie,

Wouldn't say I shivered, I was zooming in on roof line pics that I've saved n clipped, trying to find one with decent pixels to help
Markbob find his section 2 door (I think I did see one with it hanging by a thread)... so flipping thru zoomed in... the boat really
stood out n gave me a WTH moment ^.^

 

[Optical98]

253RWD

Nice find!

Jeez, looks like someone from 87th Terrace was sleuthing a bit.

Now show us the crane.....

 

[SFCharlie]

I'm trying to give the residents of 508 the benefit of the doubt

I have a wife. She's not even pregnant, but if something's going to cause her discomfort and she presents a solution, I'm damn well going to take her suggestion even if I think there might be a more simple solution, if my solution takes more than 37 seconds... Specially after midnight...

SF Charlie
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[zebraso]

thought might solve the door question.

Yeah that's really coming to the rescue. Ask and you shall receive. But now we are going to have to hear about those loose a/c condensers sitting on the deck. It's seems they do not also sit on mounting racks with code approved systems. Or maybe I am seeing things.

 

[AusG]

Optical98 & Zebrasko: Re the planter. I think the planter box is on the plan and is still there, clinging to a stub of uncollapsed pool deck slab, now partly buried in rubble.
plan:

rotate 90 degrees to get:
image

 

[Optical98]

AusG

"I think the planter box is on the plan and is still there, clinging to a stub of uncollapsed pool deck slab"

Except now it's half way up the height of the door?

 

[zebraso]

I think the planter box is on the plan and is still there

Thank you for providing the plan. There were some photos later in the recovery that had some of that debris cleared and the planter box was a little more obvious. Does that mean this area was examined? I thought maybe the question was whether that was viewable in the tic toc image. That would have to be a "no". The angle would not allow that. I mean the claim that the "sky" or above ground level could be seen through the garage entrance - whether or not sky was meant literally? Language can cause confusion.

 

[AusG]

Looks like it's on the same level to me, but I'm not sure why this a big deal. If a box the same shape and color as a planter is about where a planter should be on the plan, and the slab it should be on is clearly still intact just there, why is this a problem?

 

[Optical98]

No, I'm thinking that piece fell down from the 12th floor, that triangle that is torn out?

Zeb, I'm with you regarding those that could pick out the planter and pool furn from beyond the gate...

 

[zebraso]

Except now it's half way up the height of the door?

I had a thought about that when looking at the photo you provided. Now I can't recall what it was. Wait I will look again. OK. I think it's on the slab and not rubble. I mean I had to look at it a few times. The actual door is to the right and what that panel behind it is I don't know. Maybe it's access to the plumbing for the planter watering.

 

[Optical98]

Couldn't that black arm looking part be something that helped brace that parapet up top?

 

[zebraso]

No, I'm thinking that piece fell down from the 12th floor, that triangle that is torn out?

So say that's a piece of a balcony. Yeah that's the kind of question that does not have a very good answer. After that question is how did the debris get piled against it if it did not fall early? Good luck with that. I mean if that's where you are going. Someone will know what it is though.

 

[AusG]

Optical98: The large piece, your white arrow? Sure, good idea. I had no view on that piece at all. Zebrasko: yeah, there seems to be odd colored patches on the wall. IDK what any of them should be. The door is the dark... door-shaped thing... to the right.

 

[Auri]

Looks too thick to be a floor or balcony slab. I'm thinking it's part of the eastern sheer wall with the 13th floor being thinner just the way it is on the west. That would imply the 2nd portion of the collapse - the north side - also ripped part of the east wall just as the 1st portion ripped part of the west.

 

[zebraso]

part of the eastern sheer wall with the 13th floor being thinner just the way it is on the west.

The debris piled against it is curious. Even if it was the triangle from the west stairwell above the 12 roof it probably got closer to 9.8 m/s/s than debris that followed the main section roof. Free fall vs ...what? Nothing remarkable there.

The thing that the triangle is resting against is actually more interesting. It's a very thick non-orthogonal piece of concrete at an odd angle to the structure. It has a beveled edge and it is not deformed or broken from what I can see. The end of it is clean and straight. This is the best close up photo of this area that I have seen and I have been looking for one. That's gotta weigh as much as two or three large planters if it is concrete. It seems next to nothing fell on top of it. ?? Of course it could be an optical illusion like many things. But it seems substantial enough that it took a bite out of the shear wall and was none the worse for wear. The apparent stains on the side do not detract from the impression that I have of a jersey barrier. Can't help it that's what I see. Now I'm not saying a Jersey barrier fell out of the sky. And it does not make sense. It's probably obvious and I'm not seeing it right. I will admit that.