Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16 24

[dik]

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Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[zebraso]

1 kva xfrmr in a rainproof enclosure. Good job.

 

[FJBnomics]

So the water drip is intentional to cool the transformer enclosure???

 

[spsalso]

Notice the flexible metallic conduit to the right in the picture of the Rusty Old Box. There is also something electrical looking coming out on the left.

I think it most likely that it was supplying low voltage (12 or 24 V) for something, but there isn't enough field of view to puzzle that out.

IF the water-stuff dripping down was leaking from a planter, then MAYBE that transformer was supplying low voltage lighting in it. Alternately, it could have been supplying power for a low-voltage irrigation system for the planter.

spsalso

 

[zebraso]

It's 1:1 right? or 2:1 with center tap use. Galvanic isolation to help prevent electrocution from whatever the load is most likely. There are LED power supplies that can be found in a similar looking box. But this ain't that AFAIK assuming it is the Schneider product (label).

I think the label shows 120 and 240 connections. It says for voltage X on lines... connect secondary.... (something like that)

From the catalog these are general purpose transformers and they come in several different versions for different voltage standards. The they are resin encapsulated (potted). So that is the thermal management (no air flow needed). Oh yeah this might be to convert 208 to 120/240 If you could read the original label then we would know. But I don't think these are low voltage.

 

[IanCA]

The competitor/comedian in me says don't, quit your day job.

Thanks, I'll take that advice.
I agree, that transformer looks close. The top certainly looks closer than the 1416 series, but the item in the video doesn't appear to have a screw, or screw hole, at the bottom, dimples on the sides or flanges for wall mounting. And there is another box behind the rusty enclosure in the video.

 

[IanCA]

Rusty Old Box

That's all I was trying to get to. Acknowledgment that the brown stuff is likely to be rust rather than simply goo.

 

[Nukeman948]

When you hold the camera that close you can't see the flanges. More pics here:Link

The bottom is two pieces held on with three rusty screws. Dimples may have been added as a design change for the newer model year. Now, imagine the bottom access cover filling with water, rusting the corner you pointed out, and the one screw that holds that part of the cover on, allowing it to fall off. Or imagine anything you like. I'm not the one trying to sell a story. And I don't care who believes me when I'm not under oath.

[sub]Is it just a rusty old box, or a clever diversion?[/sub]​

 

[zebraso]

I'm not sure what the details of NEMA 3R are but I would guess that this does not apply. There is weather (rain), and then there is whatever this is. There has to be a code violation here, I would think.

 

[IanCA]

whatever this is

I think there is a possible explanation here, with hydrochloric or muriatic acid (muriatic meaning "pertaining to brine or salt") being the main concern:

As has been noted above, the effect of Cl- ions on CS corrosion mechanisms has been much less
widely studied than the effect of SO2. A high Cl- concentration in the aqueous adlayer on the metal
and high moisture retention in very deteriorated areas of the rust give rise to the formation of ferrous
chloride (FeCl2), which hydrolyses the water:

FeCl2 + H2O -> FeO + 2HCl, (8)

Notably raising the acidity of the electrolyte. In this situation the cathodic reaction (3) becomes
important, accelerating the corrosion process. The anolyte on the steel surface and in the pits that
have formed becomes saturated (or close to saturation) with the highly acidic FeCl2 solution. Both
the metallic cations and hydrogen ions require neutralisation, which occurs by the entry of Cl- ions,
but this leads to an increase in the Cl- concentration which intensifies metal dissolution, giving rise
in turn to the entry of more Cl-, which further intensifies the corrosion process. This attack
mechanism is fed by the corrosion products themselves (feedback mechanism), and it is sometimes
referred to as “autocatalytic"

The complete document is available here: Link

 

[zebraso]

Very good. Thank you. So we are back with the marine environment. But not just that because there is likely more than just ocean spray as found in rain.

 

[dik]

Check the following article:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZFzVlpPSyg

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

Ian... great link.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[zebraso]

Section 110.26(F)(1)(a) I think code says that pipe has to be 6 feet above the electrical equipment (transformer box) and outside of a 30" wide zone centered on box or as wide as the equipment whichever is wider. And 36" in front depth must be clear. If the pipe was more than 6' above the box a drip pan could be installed under it.

 

[IanCA]

@Dik,

Thanks. In addition to the HCl here are a couple of details that caught my eye:

p8
The concentration of marine aerosol decreases with altitude.

Marine aerosol is comprised of fine particles suspended in the air (jet drops, film drops, brine
drops and sea-salt particles), solid or liquid, whose sizes vary from a few angstroms to several
hundred microns in diameter

p9
In Figure 4, Morcillo et al. note that the wind only needs to blow short time at speeds above 3 m/s in
directions with high entrainment of marine aerosol (they call them “saline winds”) for atmospheric
salinity to reach important values

[average wind speed at Surfside is above 10mph (4.47m/s)

https://weatherspark.com/y/18654/Average-Weather-in-Surfside-Florida-United-States-Year-Round

p13
The influence of the distance from the sea is one of the most important aspects of MAC [marine atmospheric corrosion] in coastal
areas. Empirically, it is known that the effect of the marine atmosphere

Unfortunately, CTS had a few design features that exacerbated these conditions.

 

[Nukeman948]

Section 110.26(F)(1)(a)

"The equipment space mentioned in 110.26(E) pertains to specific electrical equipment. All switchboards, switchgear, panelboards and motor control centers shall be located in dedicated spaces and protected from damage. Dedicated equipment space is not required for all types of electrical equipment, just those mentioned above. While there is nothing wrong with having dedicated space for equipment such as safety switches (disconnects), motor controllers (starters), meter socket enclosures, and transformers, it is not required".

Unfortunately, the NEC rules for dedicated equipment does not apply to transformers.
This is a good example of building codes being a minimum standard that we can and should exceed.
While it would have been good practice to provide a drip pan or a simple deflector, it does not a appear to be a code violation.

[sub]Transformers are people too, my friend.[/sub]​

 

[zebraso]

Thanks. I see the intent there is for equipment that is to be operated, serviced or adjusted while energized. And then someone mentions that you might have to check the temperature or test voltages with the panel open, on a transformer. It has to do with working spaces. The transformer is electrically and physically protected so if it shorts out or catches on fire, it's good. And you should not have to test it in situ. If a problem is suspected slap another one in there and bench test it. I know people that will take a wiz in a parking garage when they have been bar hopping. Well Seinfeld comes to mind also. This unit is just in a bad location.

 

[spsalso]

It's only in a bad location because it's under a leaky pipe. And the professional qualified maintenance personnel have apparently chosen a sub-optimal solution. Sorta like some PE's in San Francisco.

If someone decides they need to pee on it, that might turn out to be an unfortunate decision.


spsalso

 

[zebraso]

It would be nice to know what is being drained. It could be a condensate line for all anyone knows. Why is it turned down right above the transformer. why is there a T right above it also? Cleanout? It looks like there is a rubber tube adapter off the T that may or not be clamped. Just not enough info to make any real conclusions about anything. But it looks pretty kluged. That's a handyman special whatever it is. And Ostroff asked why the electrical cable was pulled out of the stay. It looks to me like the pipe installer had to move it to get the pipe to clear. If the whole thing is just part of the leaking ceiling solution then this had no more thought behind it that the fiberglass panels stuffed up in the works.

 

[spsalso]

"And Ostroff asked why the electrical cable was pulled out of the stay."

I can't find evidence of a "stay".

On the right side of the transformer, there is attached an unpainted section of flexible metal conduit (flex). It appears to be attached to the bottom side of the transformer with a 90 degree connector. I see no evidence that it is not secured to the box.

On the left, which I will presume is the low voltage output, appears to be some sort of white (painted?) piping assembly. It is attached to the transformer using some sort of tight radius 90 degree connector.

It is poor quality video.


spsalso

 

[Nukeman948]

I can't find evidence of a "stay".

I just listened again and I think what he says is "clipped into place". It's a one hole strap.
It looks like the flex was damaged and got replaced but the new one was too short and didn't reach the strap. The connector is NOT considered support.
On the left is typical non-metallic liquid tight conduit and 90° connector. I'll bet they forgot the ground wire too.

348.30 (a), FMC (flexible metal conduit) shall be securely fastened in place by an approved means within 300 mm (12 in.) of each box, cabinet, conduit body, or other conduit termination and shall be supported and secured at intervals not to exceed 1.4 m (41/2 ft). Where used, cable ties shall be listed and be identified for securement and support.

So yeah, typical "handyman" poor workmanship.

Jeff was also way off on the location. There is no corner parking spot in the area he was pointing to.

[sub][/sub]​