Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16 24

[dik]

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Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[zebraso]

He was assuming that anything electrical such as this box would be centrally located. I would venture a guess that this transformer could be anywhere because it only 1 1kva max. Not enough for a blow dryer.

 

[spsalso]

Nukeman948,

Your comments got me looking again at the video, and I have now seen the strap. That implies that an earlier installer was much more competent than the final one.

I do wonder how it came about that the flex needed replacement. Usually it's the transformer than needs replacement, and you re-use the flex--just swing it out of the way, to the right.

So, where in the garage would there be a need for a small transformer, and also be near a pipe that might leak some sort of liquid? Certainly the walls weren't covered with such pipes (or transformers). And the pipe WAS located at a wall, though it could have done other things in the unexamined area higher up.

I still think this transformer was providing low voltage for something related to the planters.


spsalso

 

[Nukeman948]

Not enough for a blow dryer.

Doesn't make much sense to assume most electrical stuff would be centrally located to me. No logic to his train of thought. Especially when we know the main electrical room was in the North-West corner.
8.3 amps @ 120v is plenty of power for an automatic lawn sprinkler system. Nothing but timers and solenoids in those older systems. They often ran 3/4" white PVC distribution lines too. What does that "T" look like to you? A solenoid perhaps?
Only one place with a corner parking spot that I see on the drawings. North-East corner.
208v 20 amp three phase power for the exhaust fan in that same corner would leave plenty of excess current to feed that transformer. Perfect location for a sprinkler system for that nicely landscaped BBQ area to the East of the building.
All speculation of course.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1644871599/tips/APTOPIX_Building_Collapse_Miami_53686_sq37ov.webp[/url]

Edit: Another pic... Flex, wires and some boxes but no pipes or transformer.

I do wonder how it came about that the flex needed replacement.

The same water issue that rusted the transformer would destroy the flex as well, but flex is cheap and that transformer is over $500. Maintenance man could replace the flex but may not want to tackle a transformer.

[sub][/sub]​

 

[zebraso]

What does that "T" look like to you? A solenoid perhaps?

Interesting possibility. So then the transformer and plumbing could be associated. That could be a simple explanation for some things that otherwise look bizarre. I could figure out more reaching around there in the dark than I get from that video. Which cable looks like the primary/secondary? If the secondary were on the right it would make some sense feeding up to a solenoid or controller. Since there is a junction box to the left it might be going there. I assumed the secondary was on the left but could be wrong.

Edit: I had not seen your photo yet. Wow. Transformer could have been knocked off the wall. Not as protected by overhang.

 

[spsalso]

It's hard to fully comprehend what goes through the mind of Maintenance Man.


spsalso

 

[zebraso]

HMMM

 

[Nukeman948]

Which cable looks like the primary/secondary?

Ummm... No idea. Transformer and plumbing could be related, or it could be a condensate line. But I can't think of why they would have anything with a condensate drain in that area. Any other kind of drain should be larger unless it was engineered by the maintenance guy.

All the old conduits didn't survive site cleanup so there is nothing to follow to try and understand what the intent was. There is no way of guessing how many changes were made or why over the years. The only conclusion I have is that the average person has no clue how to take a decent video. Closeups don't show the big picture and most people pan way too fast.


Red pipe is likely fire sprinkler, question mark could be exhaust fan inlet but not sure. Grd, no idea.
Edit: red pipe is definitely fire sprinkler. It's Kilsheimers pic #0295 if you want to zoom in yourself.

[sub][/sub]​

 

[zebraso]

Yeah, That's good. If nothing else to note, that rebar looks pretty rusty.

 

[Optical98]

Definitely could be connected to an exhaust fan >>

NE corner shows an overturned fan in the grassy area.

 

[zebraso]

There is no corner parking spot in the area he was pointing to.

He must have missed the .5 seconds that showed the right angle wall (or whatever angle the "corner" is). Are there any other corner parking spots this could be than NE or SW? west of ramp? There were lockers in the SW corner right? Assuming NE the rust stains were blasted with the paint. none of these corners would have water running out to the from a leaky pool deck. Just saying that dripping water must just be a thing there that is ignored/tolerated.

 

[zebraso]

Exhaust fan at 60? I think there is a 45 in that corner so that does not natch up with the transformer video. The 45 is in front of the car.

 

[Nukeman948]

Are there any other corner parking spots this could be than NE or SW? west of ramp?

Both West corners are rounded. Other East corner has the pool.
West of ramp is the only other possible location I see but without better as-built drawings I can't rule it in or out 100%.
Video from CTN show it wide open under the ramp with the generator fuel tank and transformer oil tank located there.
Morabito's drawings show a maintenance area under the ramp at CTS but there is not enough detail to know if it's enclosed or not. So I can't rule out West of ramp, yet.
Not sure if it really matters either way.

[sub][/sub]​

 

[Nukeman948]

Exhaust fan at 60?

Yes, there is an exhaust fan in that "rounded corner" also. It is the South-West corner.
That big thing on the wall I believe is an access port where the natural gas connection for the new generator would have been if the 40 year rehab thing happened.

[sub][/sub]​

 

[zebraso]

No much point to it other than trying to get a different glimpse of the pvc plumbing. Was it draining any outdoor deck exposure? I have to look at the whole walk-through again. BTW I think condensate is be pretty corrosive similar to DI water. It might not strictly fit "corrosive" but it dissolves metal over time and creates it own chemistry in the process. But salt would be worse. I think. I just don't think condensate would create the corrosion that is on that transformer. I have condensate running into my pitted cast porcelain deep sink and I don't see rust.

I am leaning towards apace 82. I don't see that small step curb at the perimeter.

Edit: except there is no wall in front of 82. Are we sure that transformer is in CTS? lol.

 

[zebraso]

Slightly interesting. The catch pan leads downward to a pipe of which I don't know the purpose but it looks grey. spot 107 has a wall to the right of it. So it fits the transformer video. I mean what are the chances of finding a deck drain pan leading to a pipe that could (maybe) lead down to the transformer - assuming this is the location of course. One of the conjectures made by Ostroff was that water was simply following the pipe. There are still huge unknowns, but what are the odds of even finding this? I've had about enough of it though.

Edit: If I am not mistaken this catch panel is under the front driveway and the room on the other side of the wall is under landscaping. So this is not related to the collapse, other than to say well there were leaks the front also. But that was already commented on by Ostroff when he voice tracked the walkthrough I believe referring to where water was found on the floor. If anything I can't quite figure why there is much water coming in from the from front drive because it has cover. Or am I all wet? Is irrigation water running onto the drive?

Edit2: Ostroff noted the catch pan also and the water below it. I just happened to notice there was a wall beside space 107 which makes it fit the transformer video. It doesn't prove the audi in the transformer video was in spot 107. And I can't really see how the things in that video are on the wall in the walkthrough video, because there are no facility connections coming down the wall that I can see. So it's probably not there. I'm not saying that it's there.

 

[IanCA]

I was looking forward to reading that.

 

[IanCA]

Are we sure that transformer is in CTS?

I wondered the same thing, but Jeff mentions that the video was shot by Raysa Rodriguez, who was the owner of a unit in the portion that remained standing. So it seems quite likely.
Thanks for all the effort in tracking this down.

 

[IanCA]

Here's another reference (emphasis added):

"Marine concrete" is all concrete that will be in contact with
seawater or brackish water, tidal variations, splash, or spray from
water in navigable waterways. Piles driven on land that extend below
the water table that contains saltwater or brackish water shall be
designed as marine concrete. Components of a marine structure that
are permanently buried in soil shall be considered marine concrete.
In addition, structures may need to be designed using these criteria
even though they are not adjacent to the waterfront. For example,
structures located several hundred yards from the waterfront often
deteriorate prematurely due to salt spray and salt fog brought to the
structure by prevailing winds. An assessment of existing structures
near the construction site can be an excellent indicator for the
Engineer of Record and Owner to decide if the proposed structure
should follow the guidelines for marine concrete.

From here: Link

 

[IanCA]

catch the link:

https://www.understanding-cement.com/sulfate.html

@dik, I was wondering whether sulfates would really be an issue in Surfside with that fresh sea breeze.

https://www.transportenvironment.or...-city-air-sulphur-much-cars-new-data-reveals/

https://www.wlrn.org/news/2021-02-0...llution-instead-of-plugging-into-the-grid-why

https://archive.ph/puSt9

"Luckily, the dangerous fumes that can cause serious illness are largely blown away [where?] by Miami’s famous ocean breezes."

But the results for SO2 results for L086-0019 look low even in 2019 & 2020 before COVID.

https://floridadep.gov/air/air-monitoring/content/miami-dade-county-air-monitoring

 

[zebraso]

This might seem too obvious, but was the irrigation schedule controlled by contracted pros, or was it a set and forget thing by the people that stuck those drip pans up in the pipes. And I wonder how you design a planter drain that does not clog. Mine fill with water even if they are empty just from wind blown debris. Is there something special about the drains?