Toronto place crash 2

[LittleInch]

A Delta plane appears to have touched a wing tip during landing, ripped the wing off then promptly flipped over onto its back.

As they were on the airfield and this time didn't run into anything or catch fire, everyone is alive, though not surprisingly some injuries.

All passengers survive crash landing as plane flips at Toronto airport

Eighteen of the 80 people on board were injured after the Delta plane overturned on landing.

www.bbc.co.uk

This video https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14407855/delta-plane-crash-toronto-fireball-footage.html makes it look like a very hard landing - no visible flare

 

[TugboatEng]

Endeavor, the operator of the aircraft, started a campaign around flying "unmanned" aircraft in 2021. The pilots names are currently being withheld. I understand that it may be wise to not release names until portions of the investigation can be completed to prevent manipulation of witnesses. However, it seems more and more that the delays are intended for the scrubbing of social media.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

For the last 23 years of my career it is extremely unusual for me to have known the name who a pilot was in an accident unless I was going to the funeral.

This includes accidents that occur in company's I was/am working for.

 

[Sym P. le]

In case there is any question of the location of the wreckage, from CBC



and overlaid on Google Earth (Maps). It's barely 500 meters from the numbers and on the aerial Google image, you can see the runway maintenance where the rubber build up from the main landing area has been stripped. In other words, the wreckage stopped where most flights touch down. This is consistent with the aircraft flying into a lull in the otherwise strong winds, causing the hard landing with the wing strike. I don't know if the pilot should have been able to react in a timely manner or not.

 

[Sym P. le]

Also, from a post on PPRuNe, as transition is made from a crab approach to longitudinal alignment with the centerline, an increasing sink rate should be anticipated. This may have been a compounding factor with a lull in the winds. Only conjecture at this point.

 

[Sym P. le]

From analysis of the landing video (Facebook and on X), a post on PPRuNE provides an exact location for the touchdown.

 

[thebard3]

For the last 23 years of my career it is extremely unusual for me to have known the name who a pilot was in an accident unless I was going to the funeral.

This includes accidents that occur in company's I was/am working for.

Not sure about that. Germanwings 9525, MH370, Egyptair 990, and USAir 1549 come to mind. Those discussions quickly centered around the crews.

 

[LittleInch]

This is the best close up I've seen of the LH wing root.

Not exactly super clean detachment of the wing, but if it was a super hard landing you can see how this would impact the wing.

Looks like nose flaps and serious flaps down, but might have changed as a result of the crash.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I only know the last one because the pilot did well.

The first three are murdering pilots. They don't deserve to be known.

 

[Garbage1]

What a bumpy landing looked like one year ago in Toronto. I did not see a bounce from side to side with CRJ, just immediate failure of landing gear/wing on right side. This video shows plane flaring and appears to be lower speed.

Is a pattern emerging in the 51st State?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/video-shows-air-canada-flight-bumpy-landing-pearson-airport-1.7029672

 

[TugboatEng]

In the picture posted by Symple, the nose gear appears to be significantly bent as well which supports the idea that this was really a hard landing and not some failure of the structure of the aircraft.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Nose gear isn't that well supported structurally. It tends to punch up into the cockpit.

When it does, the geometric locks will not work and it can fold as it does when it retracts.

But that said it slammed into the runway doing I estimate 500ft per min rate of decent. I am sure you could work it out using the wind sock as a scale. Weight about 45 tons...

 

[LittleInch]

What a bumpy landing looked like one year ago in Toronto. I did not see a bounce from side to side with CRJ, just immediate failure of landing gear/wing on right side. This video shows plane flaring and appears to be lower speed.

Is a pattern emerging in the 51st State?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/video-shows-air-canada-flight-bumpy-landing-pearson-airport-1.7029672

Some landing alright. They nearly hit a wing tip.

The CRJ900 wing tip when on the ground is 3.23m for an overall wing length from centreline of about 12m. That's a roll angle of about 11.6 degrees before impact - see the drawing below when the wheel is on the ground. It is also a pretty "flat" wing compared to many which curve or slope up a bit.

But lose a wheel and its pretty much guaranteed the wing will hit the dirt as there's no engine pod to slide along on. So an engineering design issue?

The design of the CRJ with its high engines on the tail does allow the wings to basically sit below the cabin structure, but means any landing gear leg failure will be catastrophic damage.

Compare the CRJ900 with the original 737100 - both about the same size.

 

[Garbage1]

Good points. Without engines mounted on wings on the, CRJ the Wings don't have to be as strong nor as resistance to torsional loads.

Clearly wing tip hitting ground could have started the avalanche, but landing was a drive it into ground landing, thus lots of force on wing and landing gear. Who knows which failed first?

Either way any suspension travel in landing gear was abruptly bottomed out immediately upon impact.

 

[XR250]

Interesting that when the one wing broke off, the other wing still was providing lift which caused the flip.

 

[Garbage1]

Agree left wing still had lift, but right wing on tarmac was creating lots of drag on that side, and rotation in more than one plane.

 

[Sym P. le]

Judging from the landing image above, the aircraft was nowhere near 11.6 degrees of roll at touchdown so the landing gear crushed on impact.

 

[Garbage1]

Touch Down, and landing gear


Fraction of a second later, Vanishing Landing Gear

 

[DirteJoe]

One frame later you can see fuel coming out of the wing as the gear was pushed through a tank before the wing hits.

 

[GregLocock]

The way it didn't flare, maybe the pilot was blinded or misled by glare off the snow. How many bells, whistles, sirens, stick shakers, and buzzers are there to remind the pilot that there is an imminent lithobraking event?

 

[DirteJoe]

Low level windshear from weather and tall buildings and down you go. If reports are correct on the pilots, one is a sim instructor using this as a currency flight, the other just got her restriction removed on the 25th of January this year. They likely got caught out by the weather due to inexperience/out of practice.