Tourist submersible visting the Titanic is missing 101

[CWB1]

Actually, we do know that the company fired at least one person who was insisting on doing ANY testing at all.

Not to defend OG but IME the media usually has many mistakes in the 1% of every story that it covers so I try to give reasonable doubt where possible. In this instance its worth noting that Mr Lockridge purportedly isnt an engineer but rather an "experienced" submariner, and their engineering manager appears to have *some* relevant underwater experience. Being unfamiliar with sub design or operation norms and only having a limited view into OG, its beyond me to judge their competence at this point. Hopefully there is a regulator's report to read in the near future bc I'm eager to learn more.

 

[1503-44]

4000m of head = 13123 ft @ 64pcf Sea water = 840,000 ftLbs, on every square ft of surface area
If it takes a second to implode, probably thats pretty slow motion, it's 1.14 MW/ft2

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[SWComposites]

Another possible "shortcut":

https://www.latestly.com/world/tita...expired-carbon-fiber-says-report-5224751.html

"Expired" bare carbon fiber might be ok; expired prepreg is likely not ok. And I still can't get my head around the apparent mixing of prepreg and wet winding resins in the same laminates.

 

[Cool_Controls]

That article says Boeing has no record of ever selling oceangate composite material. So either he got it for free (Dumpster diving?) or it came from someone else. Maybe some guy in a parking lot: My boss told me to deliver this stuff to Boeing but they wouldn't take it because its expired, I'll sell it to you cheap.

 

[Brian Malone]

Per the link in Ideem's earlier post:

https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite...

- the hull design and fabrication was contracted to Spencer Composites. The article indicates Spencer Comp. did the design, fabrication and preliminary analysis. I have not seen them being mentioned in any follow on articles since the implosion. Wouldn't the Spencer team have determined the material layup?

 

[Reverse_Bias]

A lot of denial going on from various companies. There are still some things to be sorted out.

In January 2020, Rush gave an interview to GeekWire in which he admitted that the Titan’s hull “showed signs of cyclic fatigue.” Because of this, the hull’s depth rating had been reduced to 3,000 meters. “Not enough to get to the Titanic,” Rush said.

During 2020 and 2021, the Titan’s hull was either repaired or rebuilt by two Washington state companies, Electroimpact and Janicki Industries, that largely work in aerospace. In late 2021, the Titan made its first trip down to the wreck of the Titanic.

Spencer Composites says that the Titan was not using its carbon fiber hull on Sunday’s dive. Presumably apart from the hull work, one source familiar with the company told TechCrunch that not much with Titan had changed at all since 2018.

https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a...ngates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/

 

[LittleInch]

Not that Boeing didn't say they that they don't sell out of date CF, but just not to them direct. However it seems Stockton exaggerated the involvement of others.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Denial]

Thanks, Brian M.[ ] I have fixed this oversight and the result is available for download.

[sub][ ]—————————————————————————————————[/sub]
[sup]Engineering mathematician / analyst.[ ] See my profile for more details.[/sup]

 

[Sym P. le]

CBC article

"Entire layers of this fibre will disbond, will separate from the other layers," he said. "After each of those dives, they should have taken the submersible to such a facility and pass all kinds of non-destructive testing to make sure that there are no cracks in that wall."


Abramovici said the cracking of the carbon fibre likely would have been progressive. He said that would validate the claims of past Titan passengers who heard cracking noises during their dives.

 

[jmec87]

The patent for the "real-time hull health monitoring" system is available below.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US11119071B1/

It reads like they assumed that if the sounds at the current depth/pressure/temperature are similar to the sounds under those conditions on a previous journey, then the hull is ok. If the sounds are louder by an arbitrary amount (5% is an example given in the patent), then an alarm should go off. There appears to be much uncertainty in the meaning of the sounds that are sensed.

I don't see any evidence that they actually validated that this system would be reliably effective at detecting impending failure with enough warning to surface prior to failure occurring. Given the nature of carbon fibre under compression loading and the extreme load conditions that would be imposed, I doubt that this would be possible to achieve, but I would want numerous physical validation tests (not simulations) completed before I would even consider trusting it.

 

[Cool_Controls]

I quickly skimmed the patent, I saw the 5% threshold as compared to a previous dive example, it doesn`t seem to account for accumulated damage. A bunch of 4% events eventually add up.

 

[Tomfh]

Yes the Real Time Hull Monitoring thing was a bunch of hocus pocus. They may as well have been reading the subs aura.

 

[Cool_Controls]

Sub phrenology

 

[Reverse_Bias]

Yes the Real Time Hull Monitoring thing was a bunch of hocus pocus. They may as well have been reading the subs aura.

Yes it is, not much you can do except pray when you're at 3400 meters and 2 hours from the surface.

However for all we know the Hull monitoring worked and Stockton just ignored the alarm for 30 minutes before finally dropping the weights and heading into ascent. I'm not saying that happened but it's still a possibility from what we know at this point.

 

[Brian Malone]

Wow, this situation just gets more painful with every layer uncovered. I think about those who were lost and imagine had they the complete picture of the uncertainty of the design, they would not have gone on the dive - regardless of their willingness to take a risk for exploring/adventure. But having the sales pitch and the fact Stocton Rush is boldly piloting the submersible would be persuasive, (which from I got from other stories, he piloted all dives to the Titanic).

Everyone who previously took a dive in the Titan are all in a very special club in more ways than one . . .

 

[SnTMan]

The chance that you could die is not percieved the same as the certainty that you will

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[dik]

more info...

"New evidence continues to strongly suggest that OceanGate's submersible, which catastrophically imploded and killed all five passengers on its way to the wreck of the Titanic last week, unfit for the journey.

Arnie Weissman, editor-in-chief of Travel Weekly, initially agreed to join the June expedition, the Washington Post reports, but backed out at the last minute due to a scheduling conflict. A May dive he was supposed to go on also was canceled due to bad weather.

A conversation he had with OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush the night before the expedition, however, still haunts him to this day.

According to Weissman, Rush had bought the carbon fiber used to make the Titan "at a big discount from Boeing," because "it was past its shelf life for use in airplanes.""

https://futurism.com/oceangate-ceo-expired-carbon-fiber-submarine

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

looking to fill some positions? We have a vacancy...

"A job advert posted by the company that operated the doomed Titanic submersible that imploded last week in the Atlantic Ocean has sparked backlash on social media.

TikTok users have hit out at the since-deleted job posting by embattled OceanGate Expeditions, following the tragedy that killed all five of its passengers. According to the advertising featured on the company’s website and on Indeed, OceanGate was accepting applicants for a sub pilot position."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/titan-oceangate-job-opening-tiktok-b2364431.html

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Actually thinking about it... Wouldn't everything have flash burned inside? Temps must have been way over 300 deg C as it imploded and O2 way over 0.5 bar PP. I will admit the time scale will have been milliseconds.

 

[waross]

Now that you mention it, compression to about 18 or 20 atmospheres will ignite diesel on a cool day.
300 or 400 atmospheres (depending on the depth) will be a lot hotter.

Have any pictures been posted of the debris field?
I don't anticipate a water hammer or over pressure.
Rather than being blown off, if the sub disintegrated some distance above the sea floor, the end bells probably drifted out as they fell quite a distance to the bottom.
I see that as a more reasonable explanation than that the end bells were blown away.
I am wondering if the hull was ripped open or if it was completely trashed.
That is, ripped open or torn in two or three pieces or was it completely trashed like a styrofoam cup gone through the mower?

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!