Work ethic comparasions among generations: 8

[rhodie]

I am younger, but have the opporuntity to work with much older, well-seasoned coworkers.

I work in a management position above them, and I rely on them to daily work very hard and long to accomplish company goals and fill orders.

I would like to think that I have a good relationship with them, as good as managment can expect with his employees. I make it point to regularly "work in the trenches" with them. I do it to refresh my memory on what realistic expectations of work from them are.

I often hear comments about how people from my generation do not know hard work, that a life running computers and leisurely tasks is all we have known. I laugh it off most times, and just attribute that attitude to a bad case of "grump old men syndrome"... but it still grinds on me.
(Maybe I'm too closely correlating "hard work" with "physical work"...)

Recently, after pondering these comments more closely, I look to US history and life during industrial revolution, agrarian society, and the Great Depression, and I think maybe these guys hold an element of truth to what they are saying. Granted, these guys are all from an age post war, but they still remember hard living as a way of life.

I pose the question to the group: Do young people these day show the same hunger for hard work that people from your generation show? Do older people have an aversion to laziness that my generation lacks? I'm curious to see what posters in other countries observe as well.

Thanks in advance.

 

[IRstuff]

I wouldn't sweat it ;-) That sort of gripe has always existed. The previous generation works their tail off to get a "better" life for their progeny and their reward is the opportunity to gripe about how hard it was for them.

Clearly, some things are quite different, i.e., I have zero idea how families coped with 6 or more children; I can barely manage two.

The people who live through the Great Depression still had it easy relative to those that migrated westward through the Plains territories and Indian wars, etc. Living in a mud brick or wood cabin on the Plains with nary a soul for hundreds of miles around, other than potentially hostile Indians, was a unique hardship that dwarfs even what happened during the Dust Bowl years.

And before that, the immigrants that came across, intentionally or otherwise, under brutal conditions aboard slave ships or steerage also had absurdly rough lives.

But, I don't think that any fundamental, e.g., evolution of the laziness gene, has occurred with each generation. Rather, it's just that each previous generation has at least partially succeeded in making the lives of their offspring better. When faced with similar hardships, e.g., Gulf Wars I and II, bravery, doggedness and tenacity are always revealed.

TTFN

 

[fmara]

Rhodie

I'd have to answer yes your question, there is no comparason between the work ethics of to days graduates aganist previous generations.
I'm twenty years out of university and I can see the differance.Today they want the best paid jobs with out realy putting in the effort, you can see it in there choice of careers Stock Brokers, Accountants, Lawyers Etc..
no one wants to be engineers or sceintist anymore, and when your telling them there doing something wrong man do you get some grief.

Fmara.

 

[debodine]

Well, rhodie...how do you like the first two posts as examples of diametrically opposed opinions? I think it's fascinating to see the different viewpoints so quickly come to the fore...

 

[ewh]

I am not in the demographic that you are seeking responses from, but felt that I had to comment.
I do think that work ethics are changing. My parents worked hard every day they were expected to. The first sick day my mother took was when she went into the hospital with cancer. I appreciate what they did, but as a result, they inadvertantly instilled in me the concept of "quality of life".
I do not consider myself lazy or a slacker, but if I am sick, I will stay home or go to the doctor. When salaried, I will not continually put in excessive hours "to get the job done", because there is ALWAYS something hot that needs to be done.
Life is short. Do what you do to the best of your ability, give 110%, and go home with a clear conscience. Working at something that you have a passion for is a good key to happiness.
Ask yourself "am I living to work or working to live?"

 

[IRstuff]

I had technicians bail for an extra $0.25/hr 20 yrs ago, so I don't think there's anything new there.

The subject of "work ethic," per se, needs to be divorced from the question of renumeration. My eleven-yr old puts in 11 hr days, between school and homework. That's MY expectation and his work ethic complies.

Renumeration is a reflection of the changes that occurred over the last 40 yrs in big industry. When unions held sway, you got lifetime employment, good benefits, etc. You can no longer expect being treated like "family," instead, you're most definitely treated as interchangeable cogs. If that's the case, then there little incentive to be reasonable about renumeration.

TTFN

 

[JAE]

I pulled this off the web:

The four generations of trainees - as we define them1 - cover nearly 80 birth years from 1922 to 1999: They are the Veterans, 1922-1943; the Baby Boomers, 1943-1960; the Generation Xers, 1960-1980; and the Nexters, born after 1980.

The Veterans (1922-1943) came of age before and during the Great Depression and World War II. They are the classic "keepers of the Grail" and an irreplaceable repository of lore and wisdom, practical wiliness, and more than a few critical extra-organizational contacts, and they are very prone to digressions about "The Good Old Days."


The Baby Boomers (1943-1960), the post-war babies, are graying, and they’d really rather not be seen as the "problem" in the workplace - though they frequently are. After all, they’ve been defining everyone else as "the problem" since "Don’t trust anyone over 30." They invented "Thank God, it’s Monday!" and the 60-hour work week. Boomers are passionately concerned about participation and spirit in the workplace, about bringing heart and humanity to the office, and about creating a fair and level playing field for all. And they hold way too many pointless meetings for the average GenXer’s taste. GenXers at the chapter level see them as too wedded to ceremony and ritual, and too controlling.


The Xers (1960-1980) grew up in the post-’60s era of Watergate, latchkey kids, and the energy crisis. Their need for feedback and flexibility, coupled with their hatred of close supervision, is but one of the many conundrums they present employers. At the same time, they are personally adept and comfortable with change — after all, they have changed cities, homes, and parents all their lives. They are, indeed, the new change masters. And they are much more inclined to keep their own counsel than are their Boomer predecessors. Xers are very clear about the meaning of the word "balance" in their lives: Work is work. And they work to live, not live to work. "It’s just a job" is an oft-heard mantra for Xers. Their loyalties revolve around themselves and their friends and families, not their jobs and not your association.

The Nexters (1980+). They may be the smartest, cleverest, most-wanted small humans to have walked the face of the planet. Their moms and dads see themselves as devoted parents sacrificing to bring this new generation to adulthood. Think soccer moms and Little League dads. They’re an optimistic bunch who express doubt about the wisdom of traditional racial and sexual categorizing, and they have Internet pen pals in Asia whom they can, and do, contact at any hour of the day or night. The ones now in the workforce - think fast-food, movie theaters, grocery store carryout, yard work, babysitting, Web-page building, and internships - seem destined to become what historians Bill Strauss and Neil Howe, authors of Millennials Rising (Vintage Books, 2000), call "good scouts." They will be a very welcome addition to any association currently struggling with Boomer/Xers conflicts. But we are aware that they are coming with their own agenda.

And it ends with this:

Warning! Overgeneralizations can occur!
A note of caution: Generational diversity, like gender, racial and ability diversity, is a factor to consider in managing and positioning your organization but is not the whole show. Humans share a lot of similarities and are, if anything, adaptable. You certainly can ignore those differences and follow your tried-and-true formulas and succeed. We believe, however, that acknowledging and accommodating subtle individual differences — whatever their origin — will make your association work better for you and your members.

 

[aamoroso]

I prefer to say I work smarter not harder, but I do work my tail off to be successful. I think it is unfair to say either generation works harder, I think you have to evaluate people as individuals, not the era they were born.

Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. And scratch where it itches.

 

[fmara]

Thank God I'm an Xer

 

[EngJW]

I have mixed feelings on this. I don't think people change too much from generation to generation but the tools of the trade (drafting boards vs. computers) and the challenges change. My fathers generation, WW2, could walk into most any company and get a job at the bottom and if they did the work they could advance as far as they were capable of. When my time came there were fewer opportunities, but if a job didn't work out or you wanted more money or a change, you could usually go across town to another company. Today, industry is gone and there are few jobs available. Knowledge, skill, experience, and willingness to work have less value. You have to be a better networker and self promoter than the hundreds of others after the same handful of jobs. (And know how the answer the silly questions in the other thread.) I am glad I am not a young person starting out today.

Older generations at least had retirement and health insurance, so that was a tremendous worry off their minds. Another thing, when companies had plenty of engineers and support staff there was less need to work long hours unless one really wanted to.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

In my opinion, part of what "old-timers" define as "hard work" is "glamorization" and selective memory of the way things used to be - no workmans compensation, minimal civil rights, no unemployment insurance, no "retirement" options, etc. If you go back to the Great Depression (my father's time) you get to save your money, put it in the bank, then watch the bank "go broke" and lose it all - back to square one... tends to build character, I suppose.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[mshimko]

Let me pose an alternate question, which is my way of providing a response to the original question from rhodie:

Do people IN GENERAL expect more from society and/or the government today than people did two generations ago? (think about medical coverage, education, housing, food, retirement, etc, etc, etc).

My response is YES, hence IN GENERAL, people today do not have the same work ethic as past generations.

 

[rhodie]

That is a good question, and a valid point.

However, I would say that the older generation(s) are the ones relying most on entitlements:

1. Have you tried revising Social Security, lately?

Again, I do see you point. When your "Golden Parachute" is as easy as signing up for the dole rather than subsiding off whatever your own effort can provide, there is bound to be some kind of difference to be measured in work ethic.

 

[keano]

What do you mean by "revising Social Security".

If this is your attitude to the old now, I pitty you when you get old with the younger generations less caring than your generation.

 

[PSE]

Hmmm,

In some demographics I am a boomer and in others I am an X'er. My work ethic was instilled and distilled in me by my parents and likely my grandparents as well. Both pointed out the incredible value that getting an education could bring. Perhaps that is more of the difference, the movement from the physical labor to the intellectual. Having experienced both I must say that I prefer the "ease" of intellectual work. That said, it is still gratifying to get my hands dirty on occasion and Rhodie, I think you do well to maintain that connection. You may hear some grumbling about today's kid, but likely you have the respect of those you manage.

As for Social Security or other similar retirement benefits, the governments are so addicted to money that I would not recommend anyone to rely on it being there. I certainly am not planning my retirement around it. I am becoming unsure about company retirement plans as well. Several people I know have lost much of their retirement value by having too great a percentage tied to one place. The transition to a global economy is making it necessary to individually plan for your own future. Loss of security is mighty unsettling as you get older.

Regards,

 

[crossframe]

I've wondered about the effect of higher education on work ethic, mainly between the Veterans and the Xers/Nexters. The Veterans seem to be primarily tradesmen while relatively few went on to college. Experiencing the Depression in some manner reinforced the value of work. I think this made them more focused and dedicated: when they were at work, they worked.

In contrast, it seems the majority of Xers/Nexters attend college. There, they were given assignments and deadlines, with no restraints as to when the work was to be completed as long as the deadlines were met. This instilled a more flexible view of work and work hours. Most Xers/Nexters that have expressed an opinion agree that a rigid 8-5 work schedule is outdated, and that nobody should care when they do the work, as long as it gets done. These people could also afford this type of attitude, as they grew up in relatively prosperous times. The average Xer/Nexter has had more leisure time than any previous generation, and had never really known hardship. Not many of the Veterans felt they were above certain kinds of work.

The Boomers likely took many of their cues from their parents, but I think they were also more likely to attend college. They were also influenced by the social changes that were happening during their formative years. One common view was "I'll do my thing, you do your thing." It's more of a "Me" attitude. I think that's why this generation seems much more likely to have midlife crisis (sports cars and trophy wives) manifestations than any of their predecessors.

I think there are differences in the work ethics of the different generations, but my take is that it stems from societal influences during the young-adult years. Some generations were required to work differently and possibly harder than others. The society of the Veterans was also more class-stratified. Success meant working hard and improving their circumstances. Today's society tries to promote the idea that nobody is any better than anyone else. I think this idea has led to a general decline an ethic of hard work among younger workers, and the prevalence of the "I deserve it" attitude.

 

[TheTick]

Plenty of lazy old people out there. Don't be fooled. They just sweat more.

 

[rhodie]

keano:

Please don't misunderstand my point. I mean absolutely no disrespect nor mean to express a lack of appreciation for older people. I would say that I honor my elders in a most sincere manner.

The point was that perhaps younger people rely on government handouts more than older people. My point was that Social Security is a lifeline to many older people, just as unemployement or welfare is to young people.

No disrespect intended.

 

[CRG]

Is this a good work ethic of expecting something for nothing? Setting up a program where you create a government savings account (social security) to provide benefits when you retire. Spend all the money before you retire. Then make those who have not yet retired yet pay for your lack of fiscal restraint.

The older generation that I see does not have a noble work ethic. The older generation should be call the generation of greed and unfounded self righteousness.

 

[BJC]

First candidate: BSEE from a prestigious university, 4.0 GPA, daddy bought him a car in high school, grew up in a comfortable upper middle class neighborhood, never had a "real" job.
Second candidate: BSEE from a state university, 3.2 GPA, worked his way through college at real jobs. May have joined the military and went to school on the GI bill, grew up in a lower or middle class neighborhood.
The details may vary but the major difference is one guy had it handed to him the other went out and got it. I know who I would hire.
Destroying a work ethic is easy. We have all heard of corporations where engineers etc. are laid off in droves, the salary and benefits of whoever is left is cut, the company stock in the pension plan goes in the tank, and while all that is going on the CEO is give a multi-million dollar bonus and enough stock options to buy a small third world country. Corporate management can and does create "Wallys" by the thousands.

IRstuff.
"It used to be that you went to college, got a job with a big corporation, worked 40 years and retired. Nowadays you can be laid off anytime. The future ain't what it used to be."
Paraphrased from yogi Berra