Work-Life Balance and Pay 42

[DirtSmuggler]

Hello
I've become a salary (field) employee now. Finding myself doing a lot of overtime that I'm not getting paid for. How do I address this with management? Find myself taking work home and working for additional 2-3 hours because EVERYTHING is "urgent" and "asap". I'm not getting compensated for the additional time, even though I'm billing the client for the time. What do I do?

 

[LittleInch]

Start talking to them.

Note down everything you're being asked to do and by whom and ask them to help you prioritise or provide support. Then you might get some level of support or back up to deal with the flack from those whose requests you're not doing. Are the others at your level doing the same thing or are you being stress tested as a new employee?

Is this an ongoing issue or some sort of temporary blip? Some companies just have this culture which is to exploit their workers to the maximum until they break or leave. If your manager is of that ilk then start thinking about other options

Go with possible solutions. So something like, If these items could be dealt with by xxx, then I think I would have enough time to do all these other things.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[EnergyProfessional]

Is this a situation where you have multiple bosses and each treats you like you only have to do their work? You probably have to bring that up every time you get a new assignment. Once you accept to do an assignment by a certain time, it is hard to back-paddle.

 

[LittleInch]

Agreed. it would be nice to flesh this out a bit so we can understand where the work is coming from and why you don't feel empowered to say no.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TheTick]

Learn the difference between urgent and "urgent".

My wife once worked in an understaffed daycare. One of their mantras was "If they're crying, they're breathing."

 

[coloeng]

I worked for a consulting firm once that required salaried employees to work at least 10 hours of billable overtime per week with no additional compensation. Even if you could get your work done in the standard 40 hours, you still had to work the overtime so that the company could bill the clients. It really played hell with projects that were short on budget and you were waiting for others to get information to you.

 

[Latexman]

Do you have any underlings in this new position? If so, share the pain!

Good Luck,
Latexman

 

[hendersdc]

When you are given a new task tell your boss that you are currently full time working on tasks A, B, and C. Which task would they like to delay so that the new task gets done this week (or whatever time period they want it done in).

If the other tasks were assigned by other managers tell them that they need to make a decision together and let you know what they decide.

 

[moltenmetal]

Volunteering is a valuable service to society.

Please limit your volunteerism to not-for-profit causes, though.

We're not talking about occasionally needing to put in a little extra time to help out on a rush job for a good customer, to cover a screw-up you made, to learn something new etc.- we're talking about consistently being asked to work more than the number of hours you're contracted for.

Working that extra time is just fine IF you are offered compensation. It can be time in lieu that you can actually take, pay at regular or overtime pay, a bonus, shares, options, or whatever. That's between you and your employer to sort out. But if the only compensation offered is a) keeping your job or b) hope that you're buying brownie points with your boss, just don't do it. Somebody- other than you- is profiting from your effort, or else you're putting "sweat equity" into something you will not benefit from if it is later sold.

Most self-respecting tradespeople and even labourers have this figured out, but we engineers are sometimes slow on the uptake. Some have had it pounded into them that consistently working uncompensated overtime is the mark of a "professional". They have it the wrong way around- THEY are the MARK, i.e. the sucker- and professionals are people who provide services for hire, rather than being amateurs who work for the love of it.

Offering your services to the market for free, de-values your services and those of everyone else in your profession. Just stop doing it.

(

http://www.spitfireresearch.com)

 

[Comcokid]

I would say: "welcome to the world of the salaried".
I'm also surprised at the answers other engineers have given. Maybe it's just something expected of electrical engineers working industry-exempt(non PE) positions designing products. 42 years and 10 companies there has never been compensation for overtime. Privately owned to Fortune 500 to FTSE 100 in size. Maybe just a promise of 'comp time', but that was taken away at the end of the year along with unused vacation.

 

[LittleInch]

I agree with Moltenmetal.

Unpaid and uncompensated overtime is sadly endemic in many industries, but it is corrosive to the individual and in many cases is a false long term benefit to the company as they end up with overworked, tired, burnt out people who end up taking sick leave or leaving. It's just a pity that so few people actually realise that, both workers and managers.

When working in a salaried position, my view was always that you could do that (extra time), but only for limited periods or specific events / deadlines, surges in work. More than 6-8 weeks then it just becomes what you're then expected to do and not doing it becomes an issue instead of people realising you're doing more than you should.

I was always in the position of at least getting paid (at standard rate mind you) and also worked out that any carrot being waved in terms of "enhanced bonus" was easy to say and normally impossible to deliver.... I always booked and got paid the hours I got worked as this was indisputable.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Stick.]

I'll pass along some advice I received early in my career: "The company will take as much as you give. You have to be the one to draw the line." As far as implementing that, I use hendersdc's approach of kicking back the prioritization to my manager (although if the priorities are clear I just point out that me changing projects will delay the previous top priority). It becomes easier to do if you operate under the assumption that your working time is a fixed resource and you can't transform leisure or sleep time into working time.

 

[DirtSmuggler]

These are all great advices. Thanks.

One employee who recently became a project manager seems to be the problem. The other principals and other project manager are not. The one project manager wants everything urgently and the day of. So if I'm in the field, I'm expected to go home, put in extra hours, to get those additional things done immediately,because everything is "urgent". I think he's just a PM who wants every task completed urgently. Outside of the office, he's a good guy, no issues. While in the office, he reminds of of Louis Litt from "Suits" but not as dramatic. He speaks down to people below him, comes off condescending, and makes you feel stupid if you ask a question. I don't want to go over his head and talk to the principals about it. I'll just have to figure out how to talk to the principals about it without trying to put any blame or issues directed at him.

 

[phamENG]

Sit down with him some time (when you don't have 'urgent' tasks due) and explain what his lack of planning is doing to you. If he's a new PM, he's probably nervous about meeting new expectations so he's passing it down the chain. In the military where officer turnover is almost constant, that's standard operating procedure. An important lesson I picked up there is that you have to learn to lead from the middle - or even the bottom. Sometimes it's just that they're a jerk and there's nothing you can do, but most of the time they want to do their best and just don't know what decisions to make or don't realize the collateral damage of those decisions. Figure out what they'll respond to - blunt honesty or subtle ego stroking - and guide them to a place where everyone is getting the job done and is happy.

 

[LittleInch]

Well if all the PMs are equal, one way is to say to this PM, Well XXX also want me to complete whatever it is as an "urgent" task" (He won't know if it is or not) so can you please talk to him and agree which one is more urgent than the other.

Or start sending messages to the other PMs to say, I know I said I would do xxx by yyy, however mr up his own arse PM has requested I do this in front of your tasks. Can you please discuss this with him and let me know which is to take priority??

When you start sending those every day the other PMs will start to be on your side instead of throwing rocks at you. Get some allies.

Also I am alarmed a bit by this "I'm expected to go home, put in extra hours, to get those additional things done immediately, because everything is "urgent" No, No and No again. You are doing it to yourself. Use the tactics above and of they don't work go see the princples and explain your predicament.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[SWComposites]

Concur with LittleInch.
You do not need to cover for this PM’s obvious p*** poor planning.

 

[Ron]

You're a salaried professional. Don't whine about overtime. It's part of it. If you want an hourly paid job, go somewhere else.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

You're a salaried professional. Don't whine about overtime. It's part of it. If you want an hourly paid job, go somewhere else.

And you're the problem, Ron... "salaried" does not mean "indentured servant". There must be a reasonable definition of what is expected. If you can't (normally) get a job done within a typical 40 hour work week, then either you're too slow or there's too much work. When it becomes standard practice for everyone to be pushed for more than 40 hours/week, then it should be obvious the problem is with the expectation of work, not with the worker.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[LittleInch]

Salaried or not, it's all hourly paid.

For a salary you accept to work a set number of hours / day & days a year. That's one of the purposes of a contract.

Now that contract might say some thing like You are expected to work more than this if required to complete something.

Most people on a salary take the rough with the smooth - I did. So yes when the heat was on, you worked more hours than your contractual position - the rough.

but then with the tacit approval of those in charge you came in late a few days, went home early if needed, but you weren't docked any pay - the smooth.

The issue here is that it is all "rough" by the sound of it and that's not the bargain most people sign up to when they become annually paid staff.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[phamENG]

I think it's important to note that we're not all coming from the same place here.

For some of us it's a generational thing. There is a long standing "tradition" of salaried employees working 7-10 because it's what you do. Younger generations aren't as willing to accept that - and that's okay. It's their prerogative so long as they can take the possible consequences (they can no more dictate terms to the employer than the employer can dictate terms to the employee - the balance of power in the relationship shifts with the prevailing market conditions).

There's also some difference in industries and countries/regions and the labor laws and practices in each. LittleInch - you're talking about a contract. I've been a salaried employee since I graduated college and never once have I had a contract. I've been an at-will employee in a position exempt from many of the labor laws that dictate working hours, overtime compensation, etc. Expectations were laid out in the employee manual, but those were subject to change. So if you have a contract to fall back on, great. But most consulting engineers - at least in the US - do not.

If it's a case of cyclical work load, hang in there - most engineer firms are very cash flow sensitive, so if you turn away a bunch of work when it's busy so your employees can come in at 9 and be home by 5 every night, they'll have to lay a bunch of people off every time it slows down or cut pay for everyone.

Bottom line - clarify the expectations. Make sure your employer understands your expectations in the relationship, and make sure you understand your employer's expectations. If they don't match, change your mind, convince your employer to change his mind, or change employers.