Would you do it again?- Hind sight and engineering- 22

[jackboot]

I graduated with a Mechanical Engineering Degree and obtained a PE.

If someone knows the answer to this question please tell me:

Why does it seem that everyone is making the same amount of money whether one is in engineering or in some other profession?

Realize I love my profession, and I love the science behind what I do, and I watch Discovery and NOVA like most people watch a football game. But Engineering was a very hard degree to earn - my friends in other majors did not have to do half of what I did to earn their degree.

I help high school students from time to time and I am asked would you recommend engineering as a degree choice.

My answer: Only as a degree; it will provide the foundation for any other secondary education you can dream of (medicine or law). I can't bring myself to say - go engineering you will never regret it.

I find it discouraging that friends selling cell phones are making way more money than me and don't go to bed at night wondering whether their new design is going to kill or injure someone.

Plus - I was sweating out exams in college weeks in advance while everyone else was partying up to the day before.

Am I the only one with this observation?

jackboot

 

[HgTX]

I don't know where you got the idea that compensation has anything at all to do either with effort to gain the degree or with the job's value to society. It's a lovely thought, but awfully innocent. (Talk to any schoolteachers lately?)

Going into engineering just for the money is dumb. Engineering's a crappy job for the mercenary. Going into engineering because it's fun, that has merit.

I was already 30 years old and working at my little government job when I got a phone call from the family about how the neighbor's kid at 21 had graduated in finance and was getting 6-figure job offers. My answer to them: what the hell is your point? What does what some kid making over in finance have anything to do with what I'm making over here in engineering? The salary difference is the price I pay for the privilege of doing what I want to do for a living instead of some other more lucrative field that I'd hate.

Hg

 

[makeup]

It the same old thing really and I do see both your points. Engineering is not an easy subject to be good at or stay on top of, and in relative terms other industries appear to get more for less. But there again I too would rather do something I like.

 

[jackboot]

Hopefully my point isn't completely self-centered.

I love the notion that anyone can use their creative talents to become sucessful - blue blood or otherwise. We all have our examples of rags to riches of hard working people pulling off the extraordinary.

I just note that the "order of pain" for various professions doesn't follow a "projected compensation curve". I hear the same things from my doctor friends who say they would do it differently as well.

So, maybe I am in a mid-life crisis. College for kids, taxes eating me up, and other issues come to mind - things I didn't think about in my young, single days. My income doesn't go to fun hobbies - but I am debt free.

My problem is that the value of what we do is somehow not as important to society or industry as some other "easier asspects." Like HgTX pointed out about the finance kid making 6 figures - why isn't engineering in that same class/value? What makes engineering a good career instead of a coveted profession? Why does the new engineer (I was one) make 55K to 65K out of school - but the national averages for 10 years experience put you at 75K?

I don't need self assurance - I love my job and I will rise or fall on my own accord. But it puzzles me to no end why engineering doesn't command a premium price.

I guess nobody cares what an eigen value is?

jackboot

 

[sms]

Here is the key question:

"Why does it seem that everyone is making the same amount of money whether one is in engineering or in some other profession?"

Have you actually investigated the numbers? Maybe it only seems that way. Maybe it isn't really that way. How much money does a cell phone salesman make? What is his upside potential over his career? Have you considered that maybe that job really stinks and so they have to pay more to get people to do it?

Just some food for thought. But keep in mind that often all is not as it appears....

 

[HgTX]

Or else engineers just aren't as good as marketing and financial types at convincing the world that they're god's gift and OF COURSE should be paid $$$$.

I still maintain that it is nothing more than a pleasant fantasy that compensation has anything to do with a job's worth. Look at teaching. Pain-in-the-ass job if ever I've seen one, horrible bureaucracies to deal with day in and day out, eevul teenagers by the thousand (you could not possibly pay me to do that job), vitally important to society, and even the teachers with higher degrees don't get paid jack, even if you factor in the vacations.

Hg

 

[COKA]

jackboot,

you keep saying that you love your job and you are making a decent enough salary... what else do you need? I would rather love my job and be paid less then hate my job and have a bigger salary. My very first job was when I was 14. I had a choice: do minimum wage jobs, or go to a clothing factory and cut threads off freshly sewed shirts (!) for an extra $2 per hour. I chose the clothing factory... My work hours were 5am to 4pm, with a 15 minute break for breakfast, 30 minute break for lunch (where ~ 40 "thread cutters" had to heat their lunch in 2 microwaves!) and 10 minute coffee break in the early afternoon. Those were the only times where we were allowed to use the bathrooms. When we were cutting threads, we had to do it standing because we were more efficient, and we had to do at least 2 shirts per minute in order to make the quota!!! HELL ON EARTH!!! I stayed there for 2 weeks, after what I went on to deliver newspapers for a minimum wage. You know what?? I couldn't care less what anybody else does and how much they make, but if I am happy with my job, and the pay is good enough, that is enough for me! Those selling cell phones are making more then you? So what... How many cell phones do they have to sell to make more then you? What are their work hours? What benefits do they have? A free cell phone? I have a friend selling phones... He's in there for the $, he hates everything else. Don't wish for what you don't have, be grateful and value what you do have.


Life is beautiful!!!



Coka

 

[sms]

Well of course the simple answer to all of this is that life is not fair, and was never advertised as being fair. I could ask the same question a bit differently:

Why is it that engineering managers make so much more than top notch technical people? Why do companies value these guys when they long ago forgot most of the engineering they know? What real value do they bring to the orgainization? An ability to give good power point? That is worth what?

Managers do well, because that is the way it has always been....

 

[friartuck]

Salary hasn't anything to do with how clever you are or how good you are at your job. Your job can be easy or very difficult, but as you say, we seem to get the same money.
Why?

I have had six jobs and now work for myself. Has my salary improved...no not really. Only the amount of satisfaction (or sometimes disatisfaction)

Doctors are respected, so are dentists and even plumbers (nothing against that by the way) but engineers?????

At a party, I explained to someone about hospital services and steam ..fairly technical and complicated. The response was, can you fix my dripping tap then please.

The public at large have no idea what we do. We are the silent team of people who keep the building warm in winter, cool in summer, build the skyscrapers, filter the water, make the ice on the rinks, design the fancy fountains in the town centres, keep them safe from fire, alert them when burgled, provide telecommunications, etc etc.

But we still get the same pay as a mobile phone salesman.

I suppose it boils down to how much money you can make for the company.

I had a spell as a salesman. It was easy money and between boredom I enjoyed it.

I suppose the answer is, If you dont like it, change jobs. There's certainly less stress in other jobs, and being an engineer gives you the ability to tackle lots of other work.

Friar Tuck of Sherwood

 

[QCE]

Tradesmen salary pretty much max out at $30/hour were I'm from. Engineers with 2-4 years experience make that much. Engineering salaries go up. Tradesmen are maxed out. I'm not sure what you are talking about?????

I know engineers that make 6 figures and have great benefits. Find me a cell phone salesmen that works 40 hours a week and makes 6 figures and has great benefits.

 

[28021973]

You have to blame company accountant's & buyers.....

Running the price down on engineering products, makes the quality of the product poor. Therefore the respect of poor quality work is given its due respect.

We are a society led by accountant's, so the pound in engineering terms is not a weight measure as we see it, it's the accountant's weight in the boardroom.

Life is like a box of chocolate's...........

 

[CRG]

I would not change Engineering as a career choice for myself; however, my background is not typical. I worked as a mechanic and welder for 20 years prior to going back to school to get a B.S. degree in engineering. Now I am a licensed engineer with some practical hands on experience. I would recommend a person pursue a career in a field that interests them.

Maximizing potential income is not a good reason for entering into any career. You can earn a good living working in most fields. Life is too short to worry about how much money others earn. When it comes down to it, most high paid engineers rarely talk about their income because a firm cannot pay that salary to all their engineers. A union worker has no problem bragging about their income because they all earn the same hourly wage.

 

[jmw]

It's the Black Marble.. Cath 22 or whatever else you want to call it... and I'm sure there are teachers and nurses who feel the same... why did i pick a career with no rewards?
Better make that "financial rewards" because there has to be some peace of mind from doing what you like.
Sure, I'd love more money and I think it is sad the way engineers are treated in many countries. But, would I be happier earning more money in another career? I doubt it.

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[jackboot]

I agree with what is being stated.

But looking through history - say in the 1800's around the start of the industrial revolution - engineers were held in a much higher regard. Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers were the first folks that a father brought home to introduce to their daughters. Somehow I feel we have dropped off the short list as a profession.

I am not griping about the dollar - sure I'll take more - anyone would. The puzzlement comes from the fact that I regard what we do so important and necessary to absolutely everything in our society. But HgTx hits the hardest in that my/our opinion doesn't have anything to do with how we are paid. If we did I guess we would all be driving a 500 series Merc.

Not to beat a dead horse - but I had some seriously fun jobs - engineering jobs that involved underwater work. I didn't get paid snot - but once I had a family, my fun at the expense of my family's standard of living had to be considered. There isn't anyone here that would take a dream job that would jeopordize his childrens' well being. So happiness has many forms - I could be happy as a clam but my children would be on government assistance. Get a good feeling knowing I am towing the line for some "others" and not just for myself.

jackboot

 

[HgTX]

Engineers at the beginning of the industrial revolution were like the high-techies of the last decade.

Actually, the high-techies of the last decade, although filling a similar role to the engineers of yesteryear, did even better, because they could really write their own ticket and command the super-big bucks.

So, by comparison, I guess you could say that engineers have always been undervalued...How's that for a feel-good answer?

Hg

 

[jackboot]

HgTX - That's pretty good.

jackboot

 

[EddyC]

I would probably do it all over again and become an engineer. I have examined other professions and they don't have much appeal to me. Yes, some do pay more than engineering but take a look at the type of work, the hours and the work environments.

Engineers will never be satisfied with the working world. Engineers are people of intelligence and logic who want to accomplish great things. Most people that I meet seem to be interested in only 3 things:

a) How much money do you make?
b) How many beers can you drink?
c) How many sex partners do you have?

For most people, accomplishing anything beyond these 3 things is an afterthought. For anyone contemplating becoming an engineer, I have the following advice:

Success is 4 parts:

a) 25% what you look like
b) 25% how good you talk (how well you speak)
c) 25% who you know
d) 25% what you know

Engineers generally focus on d, whereas the most successful people need all of them.

As far as making money, I have a friend who is an ME. He makes $100k/year+, is actually doing design rather than managing, doesn't have to PE stamp drawings (no liability). I wish all of us were in his shoes.

 

[WHEngineer]

Would I do it again? - You bet! While engineering may not provide the financial rewards that other fields do, the job you have is what you make of it. (How many engineers do I know that got MBAs to go into management and now hate their lives but love the money) I worked for small companies for a number of years with marginal pay because I enjoyed the challenges of the work. I also loved being able to walk down a street and look at the buildings I have worked on, knowing that many of them will outlast me. But yes, money can be a factor - I looked at my employers and asked why am I slaving for them when I can do the same thing. That was when I opened my own company using contacts and ablilities I had gained working for others. I now work a 40 hr work week, adjusting my schedule to suit personal needs, and basically make what I want based upon the effort I am willing to put into the effort. But much of that is the same in any business-the boss makes the money.

 

[metengr]

Jackboot;
You have left out one piece of vital information regarding your experience as an engineer. Sounds to me if you have just got your PE, you could be in your late 20's or early 30's.

I have been an engineer for 23 years and have enjoyed every minute of it. I too started out making the same money as a friend of mine who is a darn good tradesman. After about 7 years, I surpassed his income and haven't looked back. To answer your original post - I would absolutely become an engineer, even the same profession (metallurgist).

I truly believe that if you have a passion for your profession, you will be recognized and salary will be commensurate with your experience. As far as my job, I work about 50 hours per week, am basically home in the evenings, have watched both my daughters grow up including attending most, if not all, school events. I make a very comfortable salary that provides a roof over my head, food on the table and a little extra at the end of the day for retirement.

People that I know who make more than I do (like doctors and lawyers, owners of businesses, VP’s or CEO’s of corporations) have sacrifices regarding family life versus work. There are no free lunches in life, so if you want to chase the almighty buck, go for it. I have low stress in my life and enjoy each day.

 

[ChickenSoop]

At 40 years old, I now realize I will retire at 65 and probably live at or just above the poverty line - if I keep going at my current job and live in this same city. The only way I will fix this is to move into management and away from engineering.

My younger sister went into nursing and on graduating, got a $40,000 signing bonus, makes more money than I do, gets a year off whenever she decides she wants to have a new baby....

what the hell.....