Bio-fuels .... good or bad? 16

[jmw]

Does anyone have any idea of the impact of bio-fuels? pros and cons?
We are no longer talking about recycling used chip fat here, but purposeful production.
Even as Bio-fuels begin to atract attention we hear about grain and meat prices rising, as we should expect when there is competition to turn our wheat into either bread or fuel.
We also have concerns about our environment. Indonesia is said to be prepared to plant more palms for the palm oil and that means more destruction of the forrests (more burning and smoke?) and loss of habitat to the already endangered (how seriously?) Orang Outang.
This report suggests Brazilian sugar cane as a source.

http://www.livemint.com/2007/09/24013816/BPCL-looks-to-tie-up-with-Petr.html

We all know that we are already losing rain forest at an alarming rate so how bad will this be? 600 acres doesn't sound like a whole lot of land but:
[ul][li] how much bio-fuel will it produce?[/li]
[li]Should bio-fuel be organic? (seriously, the impact of chemicals etc isn't just on foods but on the local ecosystems... )[/li]
[li]How much land would be required to produce enough bio-fuel to replace petrol/diesel?[/li]
[li]If we replace petrol/diesel with bio-fuel, how cost effective is secondary refining [/li]
[li]what are the impacts on the oil industry? Does crude get more expensive or less?[/li]
[li]what are the economic impacts of such changes on refining and thus on society?[/li]
[li]What are the questions we should be asking?[/li][/ul]


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

The only whiskey to worry about is Irish, the rest is better off used for fuel.

It would be interesting to see figures for how much arable land is currently used for non vital food production. Combined with changing some pastoral land to arable etc it might be possible to generate a reasonable amount of bio fuel without significantly impacting world food stocks.

However, it would require a change in habits and menues.

I don't see it happening. It's easier to cut down rain forest or starve the third world than get people to stop smoking, drinking alchohol, tea coffee, eating chocolate, lots of meat etc.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[jmw]

Back to the war time spirit and Dig for Victory!
Get people back on the allotments and growing wheat and rape seed instead on pansies and imported flowering shrubs. Window boxes of it instead of parlsey and pansies.
I think I'll send of for some "Hasting's Prolific" seeds.

Must be a lot of land that could be used for small DIY bio-fuel production.... drag it along to the market and get a few bob for sack or two.
On the other hand, My great uncle had a better idea of what to do with corn (he lived in Georgia) though I gather the revenue men had a different idea about his self help initiative.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SomptingGuy]

Rumour has it that some people grow plants in cupboards and wardrobes here in West Sussex, using artificial light. Seems like a good use of space to me and it apparently fuels people all through the night. Our local plod aren't too keen though.

 

[ewh]

Those lights can sure be bright!

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> using artificial light.

Solar powered artificial light, no doubt?


Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[dcasto]

The numbers get you wondering. If I can buy cheap rum for $25/gallon at 40%, thats $62.5/ gallon on the C2-OH. So why does it cost $2.00 gallon as fuel?

 

[RDK]

Taxes and quality

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[jmw]

Now I'm worried: not only the OECD but Greenpeace appear to share similar concerns.

http://www.euractiv.com/en/transport/oecd-blasts-eu-biofuels-rush/article-166628

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[moltenmetal]

If we could get rid of all the @(#&$(@ subsidies, it would be EASY to tell if a biofuel had more or less energy in it than it took to make! The cost alone would tell you. But what Argonne argues is that corn ethanol is a way to take the energy in "plentiful fuels like coal and natural gas" to turn corn into a liquid fuel which displaces the US dependence on foreign oil. In other words, it's an economic shell game, putting a green-wash on coal and/or wasting natural gas that could be used more efficiently to operate vehicles directly. Using corn as an intermediate in such a shellgame is done for one purpose only: to obtain votes by providing agricultural subsidy in the guise of environmental policy.

Any calc you do has to take into account all the inputs and all the outputs, though. The oft-touted studies which view corn ethanol as a net consumer of fossil fuel energy neglect to offer any benefit for the brewer's grain mash that is left over after fermentation. This material is not a waste, it's a secondary product which can be used to offset the need for the grain in the first place. Doing such a calc and forgetting a major energy balance line item like this is either extraordinarily incompetent or deliberately fraudulent. There are many fraudulent or grossly erroneous claims out there on both sides of the argument for corn ethanol, so it's not just one side guilty of these bad calcs.

Based on my review of the information, I'd say that corn ethanol does offset, to a minor extent, some fossil fuel use- to such a minor extent that it's hardly worth doing. Biodiesel does the same, provided it uses waste vegetable or animal oil as a feedstock- using fresh oil biodiesel is pretty much energetic insanity. That also assumes that there's no alternative food use for the waste oil (i.e. in pet food etc.)

This is all a distraction from what we should be doing: taxing carbon or putting in place a cap and trade system. There's ample evidence to satisfy me that we need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels as fuels (as opposed to higher value uses such as chemical feedstocks etc.), and the only way that will work is to hit people in their pocketbooks. The solutions are many, and few of them are fuel replacements- most of them are behaviour changes for consumers and design changes to the things that consume energy.

 

[PSE]

ADM (Archer Daniels Midlands) would likely love to have bio-fuels take off, they would make out very well. If I remember correctly, sugar cane would be a more "efficient" source of ethanol compared to corn as it takes less work to begin firmentation.

Regards,

 

[ewh]

Ignore that man behind the curtain!

 

[jmw]

Catch this link while you can:

http://www.sustainableshipping.com/news/2007/9/69392?tag=2-1019-0-0

In essence it says that while Palm oil looks good in terms of yiled per acre compared to other fuels, the main producers, Malaysia and Indonesian, would actually release huge amounts of CO2 through deforestation and draining peat swamps.

"There are bad biofuels in the world and palm oil is often the very 'baddest'," Ed Matthew, fuels expert with Friends of the Earth was reported saying.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Rjeffery]

Now that the next president of the United States of America has won the Noble Peace Prize for his global warming film, I am investing all my money into switch grass farms and biodiesel production companies!

 

[jmw]

The Nobel Prize committee is probably composed of the same guys (or ones with similar mental qualities) that are on the Turner prize committee; 'nuff said?


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[csd72]

The Ignobel prizes hold more meaning for me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ig_Nobel_Prize_winners

 

[jmw]

The greenies position against palm oil is strengthening though they wish to try the same trick as with tropical timber... establish it as from renewable resources. Well, there's no problem with that, this is a renewable crop that will take over most of Indonesia. That isn't the problem, its the slash and burn that will replace other forest species and send the Asian Elephant and Orang Outang to early extinction....
but their hearts are in the right place...

Another and possibly more attractive bio-fuel is oil from Alage.

http://algaelink.com/

They pass the website test, just. They do have films but the overall website appears to have been put together by someone too busy doing other things (like working on a real project) to worry about page links, menus on all pages and a working home page.... such a contrast to some of the con-merchant sites with flash players and animations, glowing testimonials etc).
Some links on this page:

http://www.biodieselinvesting.com/b.../algaelink-offering-algae-to-biodiesel-class/

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[PSE]

For the recycling chip fat crowd.

http://www.greasecar.com/

Regards,

 

[Ussuri]

I just received this link in an email, its from a Norwegian Newspaper. I think this is taking it a bit far. Fight club anyone?

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1559489.ece

 

[Rjeffery]

A Star for that, Ussuri!

 

[jmw]

Definitely Soylent Green Territory but fuel not food, that was unexpected. (see the ethanol thread)

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com