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Bio-fuels .... good or bad? 16

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jmw

Industrial
Jun 27, 2001
7,435
Does anyone have any idea of the impact of bio-fuels? pros and cons?
We are no longer talking about recycling used chip fat here, but purposeful production.
Even as Bio-fuels begin to atract attention we hear about grain and meat prices rising, as we should expect when there is competition to turn our wheat into either bread or fuel.
We also have concerns about our environment. Indonesia is said to be prepared to plant more palms for the palm oil and that means more destruction of the forrests (more burning and smoke?) and loss of habitat to the already endangered (how seriously?) Orang Outang.
This report suggests Brazilian sugar cane as a source. We all know that we are already losing rain forest at an alarming rate so how bad will this be? 600 acres doesn't sound like a whole lot of land but:
[ul][li] how much bio-fuel will it produce?[/li]
[li]Should bio-fuel be organic? (seriously, the impact of chemicals etc isn't just on foods but on the local ecosystems... )[/li]
[li]How much land would be required to produce enough bio-fuel to replace petrol/diesel?[/li]
[li]If we replace petrol/diesel with bio-fuel, how cost effective is secondary refining [/li]
[li]what are the impacts on the oil industry? Does crude get more expensive or less?[/li]
[li]what are the economic impacts of such changes on refining and thus on society?[/li]
[li]What are the questions we should be asking?[/li][/ul]


JMW
 
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Guffaw. Thanks Ussuri, a star for that (after I go visit the restroom to lose my lunch).
 
Wow, 10,000 liters a week! That'll be a BIG help.

Regards,

Mike
 
Shudder. Solyent Green indeed. Perhaps inspired by the use of humans as energy sources for the machines in the "Matrix"? Fat from animal processing plants would not be a better source of material? How long before people think to become paid for having the liposuction done as a "renewable" energy source. Putting all sense of ethics/humanity aside, 10000 liters from 11500 liters of "raw material" is (if true) a rather efficient process.

Regards,
 
Perhaps the biggest problem; depleting water resources.
 
jmw, you mean the tea and biscuit isn't enough for you.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
To my opinion, we are approaching the problem from the wrong side.
We are expecting the optimal and perfect performances from the new technology.
When the first car came out, people asked ironically "and what happens when the fuel is over?" My horse just eats some grass and he continues ...
I don't see so many people riding horses today on the highways..

New things bring new problems, and everything is in a dynamic movement. New thinks bring also new solutions that nobody can even imagine right now, as we try to extrapolate from the actual situation.

Everything (statisticians say) has a logistic curve, but for some reasons we never think about it. Problem is that nobody knows and/or can predict when the curve will change its concavity. But it will do it.

If the new technology brings job to your local community, why not investigate on it?

 
Kenat,
well, I guess it depends on what biscuits are on offer.
If the blood shortages get to crisis point maybe it'll be Gin and Tonic on offer or a pint of stout.

JMW
 
kenat: to quote Tom Waits, "I sold a quart of blood and got a half a pint of scotch!" Sound like a fair deal?!
 
There was a time when trying to get blood from me would have been like tapping a keg of Guinness but I've grown up now, more or less;-)

Half pint of scotch, no thank. Half pint of real Irish Whiskey yes please. Actually second thoughts I'm remembering that night now and I'll pass thanks.

In a true knee jerk reaction way, given the price of food at our local grocery store I've decided bio-fuels are a bad thing, at least for my wallet ;-) (yes I know it's probably as much/more to do with the price of oil).

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
Oh yeah, the week dollar too.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
Yeah, but ignoring distillers grain (the left overs from brewing) as an animal feed source is unfortunate.

Don't get me wrong I have concerns over bio-fuel but it seems that every set of figures is skewed to one extreme or the other.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
Yes but all those animals do is turn it into methane, far worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas (and better than a hangover).

These days the one environmentalist group I like to hear from are the bird watchers, they always seem at odds with the rest.
They are definitely anti-windfarms and, on the marine fuel front, prefer heavy fuel oil to distillate because it is easier to clean up.

In the case of "bio-fuels" even the most gung-ho activists seem to have reservations and say some bio-fuels are "bad". I'd like to think that is because there are real problems but I begin to suspect it is because too many people are seeing bio-fuels as the next golden goose and smilling too much. I must look and see what the bird lovers say but probably it is the possible encroachment of intensive bio-fuel crops on wetland habitats that will bring them out.


JMW
 
Bio fuels are ultimately all snake oil: a distraction from what we really need to be doing, which is taxing fossil carbon and investing the tax into helping us kick our fossil fuels addiction.
 
Not sure I see the logic of biofuels... Why use cheap, concentrated, easily transportable fuels (oil and gas) in fixed heating or power generating stations, and then go to all the trouble of converting a solid, low density organic material into a liquid fuel? Why not just burn the bioenergy crops for heating or electricity generation, and keep the fossil fuels for transport?
 
I'm not sure they've changed their minds. Instead of paying you to do it they're going to fine you for not doing it.

Still has the potential problems of putting pressure on food supply and/or leading to forest etc being cut down for arable land.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
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