Building geometry 10

[hoshang]

Hi all,
Please find the attached image.
Do you think the proposed geometry acceptable regarding center of mass and center of rigidity considerations? FYI the red circle is the center of mass.

 

[BAretired]

If so, don't you think another passage way is needed in the ground floor (on the right side of your proposed stair in parking levels) so one can get to the stair above Ground Floor? Wasting space in the Ground Floor?

No! The proposed parking level stair would join the existing corridor at Gridline A to exit at street. Waste space at Ground Floor would be minimal.

 

[hoshang]

Hi all,
How one can use the person lift walls as gravity bearing elements since no column can be placed at the lift wall position?

 

[BAretired]

Elevator shafts can be used as bearing walls without columns. If they do not continue down to the foundation, they must be supported by other means.

 

[hoshang]

If they do not continue down to the foundation, they must be supported by other means.

Thanks. Can you elaborate more on this?

 

[BAretired]

Not really. Each case is different.

 

[rb1957]

unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the elevator go down to the parking basements ?
but even with BA's latest rearrangement, how do the cars get off the lift (without a 16 point turn) ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[BAretired]

& BA[/color]]unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the elevator go down to the parking basements ? So far as I know, it does.
but even with BA's latest rearrangement, how do the cars get off the lift (without a 16 point turn)? I thought it would be okay if the drive lane could cleared of cars; but turning is going to be tight in such a confined space and it doesn't appear that the desired number of cars can be achieved without parking on the Ground Floor.

 

[rb1957]

yes , like your 1st sentence "Elevator shafts can be used as bearing walls without columns."
but I think your 2nd sentence "If they do not continue down to the foundation, they must be supported by other means.", 'cause OP seems to have queried this (when it doesn't seem to apply to his structure). I think you meant it as covering other structures (where the elevator doesn't to the foundation and would need some support).

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[BAretired]

I think your 2nd sentence "If they do not continue down to the foundation, they must be supported by other means.", 'cause OP seems to have queried this (when it doesn't seem to apply to his structure). I think you meant it as covering other structures (where the elevator doesn't to the foundation and would need some support).

I wasn't sure whether hoshang was referring just to elevators or perhaps, also to stairs. I had recommended chopping the East stair (Gridline A) into two stairs, the parking level stair and the stair from Ground Floor to the topmost floor. This was done to prevent two cars from projecting into the drive aisle. If my recommendation is followed, the upper stair needs support at Ground Floor level as it does not continue down to the foundation.

If hoshang was addressing only Elevator Shafts, then you are correct; it was a general comment covering any structure.

 

[hoshang]

If my recommendation is followed, the upper stair needs support at Ground Floor level as it does not continue down to the foundation.

What kind of support?

 

[BAretired]

What kind of support?

That should be obvious. Ground Floor framing would need to support the weight of the stairs if they do not continue to the foundation.

 

[BAretired]

Further to the question "What kind of support?", following is a partial Ground Floor Plan. There are 24 risers on one stair and 14 on the other, but the floor to floor height is the same. If the left hand stair expands to the north (down on plan), I would expect to see an additional column in the parking levels to support the stair above Ground Floor. It should fit between cars so that the two cars blocking the drive aisle can be moved to Grid Line A.

 

[hoshang]

Hi BAretired,
thanks for your reply.
My intent is to use some concrete walls at the upper floors? So my query about supporting upper floor walls at lower floors. Can upper floor walls be supported by columns at lower floors? Or maybe other options are available?

 

[BAretired]

Yes indeed! Not a problem. As for other options, a wall could be used, running east/west and placed between the two cars which project into the aisles in the parking levels. There appears to be ample room between those cars, so the wall could be any thickness required (within reason).

 

[BAretired]

The typical floor to floor height is 3.6m for all floors except Ground Floor which is 4.6m. It is not clear why the typical floor headroom has to be so high. Usually, in residential buildings, the floor to floor height is much less.

The number of risers shown on the drawings is not consistent, with five more risers on the right stair than the left, ten more for the Ground Floor.

Before the Ground Floor Framing can be completed, the left stair has to be enlarged to accommodate more steps. Reducing headroom where possible represents a saving in cost.

I am still wondering why the municipality requires 20% of the building area to be "open". That has not been explained to date and is not standard practice anywhere so far as I know. I consider it a total waste of space, space which could be better used for occupancy.

 

[rb1957]

to me the logical place for the lift would be between B and C perpendicular to the road. then arrange parking so one turn only into spot, or something like.
Ideally you'd drive onto the lift from the road and then park, but be able to flip the car so you could drive straight onto the road ... but here you'll have to reverse onto the lift and then reverse out into traffic ...

Can you (as a parking manoeuvre) reverse over the lift ? is the lift flush with the floor, no edge or sides (that sounds scary) ?

But I still see no way you'll get the seven (or eight ?) spots "required". Try it out, full sized.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[BAretired]

Can you (as a parking manoeuvre) reverse over the lift ? is the lift flush with the floor, no edge or sides (that sounds scary) ?

That would be scary. The car lift has to be enclosed by a firewall with fire rated doors at each level; otherwise there is no fire separation between floors.

 

[rb1957]

the design is surely doomed !?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[BAretired]

the design is surely doomed !?

Not necessarily! Fire protection for a passenger and automobile elevator is identical except that two doors are required for the latter.

 

[dold]

I am still wondering why the municipality requires 20% of the building area to be "open". That has not been explained to date and is not standard practice anywhere so far as I know. I consider it a total waste of space, space which could be better used for occupancy.

Going out on a limb here to say this is probably relating to wall area, not floor plate area. I.e., 20% of the wall area must be open to the outside (for ventilation purposes...?). Total shot in the dark.