Building geometry 10

[hoshang]

Hi all,
Please find the attached image.
Do you think the proposed geometry acceptable regarding center of mass and center of rigidity considerations? FYI the red circle is the center of mass.

 

[dik]

Sorry BART, improper statement... I meant an intentional opening, like the 20%. Of course you have to provide proper seals at lift and stairs...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BAretired]

Dear all, if someone just do the design for our beloved friend hoshang, would be much stressful than keep discussion about it ?

Easier said than done. But feel free to do the design yourself.

 

[ALK2415]

@ BAretired
No harm meant, and I admire you all ...

 

[rb1957]

"if someone just do the design" ... sorry, we don't do detailed design of structures we know very little about, in places we don't know, to design criteria/constraints that we don't know, ...

It has been said repeatedly ... the garage is too small.

If you're ok with making a "cartoon" showing all these parking spots then fine. Just don't be surprised when they don't fit.

It has been suggested that you do a full scale test of your lay-out, to see what can be achieved.

And none of this discussion talks to the original question ... the offset between the center of mass of the building and the center of the foundation (or however you civil guys describe this). How to account for the fact that the building overhangs the foundation.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[hoshang]

Hi all,
What about this layout?

 

[BAretired]

hoshang,
Draw the Ground Floor Plan and tell me how one walks from Stair #1 to Stair #2. That is one reason why it won't work. On second thought, this is not a valid reason as there is adequate access to all parts of the Ground Floor.

Moving the car lift to Gridline 1 means that people driving a car out of the building must back into the car lift or else back out of the building. People driving into the building must back out of the car lift when they get to their parking floor. It may be possible, but some people are not very good at backing up.

What happens when one tenant is leaving while another is arriving? There is only one lane for coming or going, and there is no place for incoming cars to park, other than Main Street.

You need to retain an architect to help with your design problem. There are too many issues to be addressed on this forum.

 

[rb1957]

I thought they were two independent exits ? There is a corridor between them on the residential floors (so you can exit by either). On street level there seem to be dedicated access doors.

Is there nothing around the edge of the lift ? If the lift is there can you drive over the space ? If the lift isn't do you have an open space (to the floor below) ??

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[ThomasH]

What about this layout?

Have you read BAretired's comments from 8 Jan 24 21:23?

 

[BAretired]

and BA[/color]]I thought they were two independent exits ? There is a corridor between them on the residential floors (so you can exit by either). On street level there seem to be dedicated access doors. You are correct. I have changed my response accordingly.

Is there nothing around the edge of the lift ? I believe there would be walls around the car lift, and a fire rated door, similar to a lift (elevator) for people. If the lift is there can you drive over the space ? If the lift isn't do you have an open space (to the floor below) ?? If the shaft is enclosed, you could not drive over the space in a direction perpendicular to the lane. Fire regulations do not permit an opening between floors without protection.

 

[rb1957]

thx BA ... much as I thought ... couldn't imagine a hole in the ground when the lift is on another floor ... so how do the 2 RH cars get there ? Aren't there rules about how much space to leave at the RH stair-case ? (doesn't look like there's much.)

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[BAretired]

thx BA ... much as I thought ... couldn't imagine a hole in the ground when the lift is on another floor ... so how do the 2 RH cars get there ? Aren't there rules about how much space to leave at the RH stair-case ? (doesn't look like there's much.)

The car nearest the stair could not get there if a wall exists on three sides of the car lift. The other car should be okay.

But there are other reasons why the car lift cannot go to Gridline 1 as it would require driving backwards when moving a car into or out of the lift which is not ideal and likely would eventually lead to minor collisions.

A normal parkade has two ramped lanes, one in and one out. A single car lift does not provide an equivalent solution to moving the cars. There should be two car lifts, one in and one out.

One local regulation requires 20% open floor area to be provided for ventilation. Seems like a complete waste of space in a building which is very much in need of space.

Another local regulation requires that the foundation wall adjacent to Main Street stay one meter clear of the property line, reducing each parking floor by 521 square meters, two areas which are already too small.

 

[rb1957]

I visualise this lift as "roll on/roll off" ... drive in from the street (nose north), drive north off the lift and somewhere do a 20-point turn so that you drive onto the lift facing south. This implies two control units (as the driver changes sides up or down).

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[BAretired]

That sounds too complicated, rb1957. In my opinion, the building requires two lanes, one in and one out. Otherwise there will be constant confusion, not to mention unreasonable delay with cars waiting for their turn at the lift.

Perhaps hosang could provide some clarification.

 

[rb1957]

there'll always be waiting for the lift. I think it "only" needs a control light (at the lift and at the driveway entrance); and then people who obey traffic lights !?
In my experience it is common to have a single door for an underground lot ... that it is used in only 1 direction at a time.

But this is still "rearranging the deckchairs. The space is too small for the demands on it. And none of this addresses the original question.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[BAretired]

Okay rb1957. I have not frequented much underground parking, so I won't press the point.

 

[hoshang]

A normal parkade has two ramped lanes, one in and one out. A single car lift does not provide an equivalent solution to moving the cars. There should be two car lifts, one in and one out.

Where do you suggest the two car lifts be placed?

 

[BAretired]

Where do you suggest the two car lifts be placed?

I have no suggestion for that; I don't think it's possible. But, if you are prepared to accept a single car lift, go for it. Just don't move it to Gridline 1 as you recently suggested.

So far, no one has come up with a valid parking layout with just one car lift. Perhaps the proposed structure is too ambitious for the size and shape of the lot.

It seems not appropriate (not consistent with Typical floor plan and violates 20% of total area opening requirement).

Please post the regulation which requires 20% of total area opening requirement. Is this a city regulation? Is it Baghdad, Basra, Mosul or other? Or is it an Iraqi regulation?

 

[rb1957]

I don't think two lifts makes the solution any better (but you'll lose more floor space). You were "happy" with the single lift, and so had already considered the signaling and control issues. This means that you'll have a stop light at the entrance (and so cars need to be prepared (and able) to stop on the road).

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[MintJulep]

Looks like a fun game! Can I play?

I can get 8 cars in with a turntable and no need to move any other car to get any car to the lift.

 

[rb1957]

that's probably the most "sensible" lay-out we've seen ... but accessing the lift may be difficult from the road.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.