Hurricanes, Sea water, Corrosion and EV's 13

[enginesrus]

https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/

It appears Li Ion battery's don't do so good with sea water, corrosion, and hurricane's. Many other threads on the net explain the tons of water
that the fire people need to attempt to extinguish the fires. I would like to see the pollution figures of an EV fire.
And on topic the pollution figures of all operations required to manufacture those battery's.

 

[EdStainless]

As EVs collect more fleet life it will be interesting to see how much the life of the electronics is affected by living near the coast.
While the modules and batteries themselves are fairly well protected (TBE I hear you on IP ratings) what about all of the connections?
Wil this be any worse than with ICE?


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[JohnRBaker]

There's a lot of EV's being operated near the coast out here is California, however, we do tend to try and keep our salt water where it belongs, in the Ocean. That being said, you can still spot the people who do live very near the water's edge since it only takes a couple of years before the paint starts to show the results of its battle with salt spray.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[EdStainless]

I have seen data from many locations that show the elevated Cl levels in both dew and rain as far as 10mi inland.
Of course this is much worse in hotter and more humid environments.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[TugboatEng]

I work directly on a salt water waterfront. I don't feel that we have any accelerated corrosion vs less coastal areas. In our favor, there are no waves here. I think breaking waves are a requirement as they aeresolize the salt water.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I was speaking of the people who live in places like Huntington Beach or Laguna Beach or any number of the places where they do have considerable surf as noted by the many surfers riding the waves each day.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Factoter]

Reminded that saw my first EV car fire this summer, a hot California summer, fully engulfed side of highway. Felt certain sympathies for the solo occupant, obviously down on his luck and now it was time to turn a newer leaf. Poor fella.

Why only the Yanks get red rear turn signals

https://www.jordannews.jo/Section-51/Drive/Rear-red-turn-signal-unique-to-US-cars-947

—Tesla shares in this obsession with style over substance BTW, and red rear signals are de jure, despite what anyone says to the contrary. I’m forming the opinion that Tesla is a de facto technology development platform, and that this is the selling point for consumer satisfaction, not consumer safety.

 

[CWB1]

... and what is the basis for that statement?

SAE standards for overcurrent protection, intro to electrical engineering, everything in between including the DFMEAs you mentioned....and common sense.

 

[JohnRBaker]

SoCal probably has more EV's than most any other place in the country, and while I've seen many non-EV's either in full flame, the first of which I ever saw in SoCal was in 1977 on top of Signal Hill in Long Beach (there has to be a joke in there somewhere), or a burned-out shell on the side of the road. However, I've yet to see an EV with even smoke coming out of it. I know that's just anecdotal, but at least that's what I've seen.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

The trouble with EV's isn't the rate of combustion, it's the resources required to extinguish the fire. They can even reignite days later. Most EV fires are caused by collisions so charge management isn't going to address that problem.

That is the trouble with EV's. Every single aspect of their existence requires additional resources. They require additional minerals to make the batteries, additional firefighters to put out the fires, additional infrastructure for charging, addition fuel for electricity, additional road maintenance due to weight, additional time to reach your destination, and finally additional subsidies to be affordable.

 

[JohnRBaker]

And many of these same issues were around a hundred plus years ago when the world was contemplating the advent of petroleum powered vehicles on every road and trail, unsure of the additional minerals to make fuel, additional firefighters to put out the fires, additional infrastructure for fueling, additional resources to store and deliver fuel, the need to pave roads due to the more delicate nature of automobiles versus carriages and wagons (the last two on Tug's list are probably not as relevant then as today). But you get the point, eh?


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

100 years ago the transition to petroleum power was a natural progression driven by economics and science. Today, the transition to electric power is antagonist to the past and solely driven by politics.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Sorry, but I'm not buying that...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

We know. You also chose not to buy electric cars.

 

[dik]

not solely...


We'll have to see how this works out. There may be a time in the future where you may not have a choice. We'll have to wait and find out.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

I think your record is broken, dik.

 

[hokie66]

Maybe not broken, but it is certainly stuck.

 

[Factoter]

Simultaneous to Lithium “light metals” are the turbocharged F1-inspired grocery-getters. In reality, both drive-up the ‘firing order’ to unnecessary levels, and require more mitigations to counteract, both by power management and other means. Fire risk in cars is increasing across the board as a result of current trends. Car fires trended downward decade by decade, now it’s changed, our world is shifting gears, we have multiple ‘revolutions’ upon us: materials, manufacture, control, . . . Etc. That the root of this present day revolution is ‘green-ness’, or “conservationist” or some altruistic motive, is unproven.

 

[dik]

Broken or not, things aren't likely going to get better. We'll have to wait and find out.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

Sounds promising...

Battery tech breakthrough paves way for mass adoption of affordable electric car

Researchers develop new technique that charges EV battery in just 10 minutes

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/10/221012132511.htm

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

That's a bit optimistic. Electricity rate is already in short supply and faster charging is only going to tax the system more. Sure, maybe it will allow for smaller battery packs (I don't think that will be an attractive option to most buyers) which may use less materials but the life of a battery pack is also determined by the number of charge cycles. More cycles means a shorter pack life.