Lazy designers/drafters 16

[JsTyLz]

I am not saying all designers or drafters are lazy, but for me it is like pulling teeth to get one of them to work. Of course I always get the project done in time, and in all honesty I generally expect more out of people than what they do themselves. I am just wondering how many other engineers out there have designers/drafters working for them and what they do/did to get them to work. I am thinking about going to my boss, but I think I should address the issue with this person first too. I guess this is half venting and half curiosity if other people go through this stuff too.

Stylz signing off

 

[KENAT]

If the rev block think really bugs you then you need to consider what your company standards/procedures say.

If they just follow ASME then what they're doing isn't wrong.

If you have a line in your company standard that says "previous revs shall not be removed" then they are wrong.

You could always change the company policy/standard.

Of course, at the end of the day if you are supervising the drawing then unless it breaks some standard invoked by the company they should do what you say and follow your interpretation of the standard.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[BJC]

JsTyLs
I have observed that the pay for CAD help has gone down over the last 5-10 years. Who gets excited over a $14 hour job?
Next who gets excited working for engineers who can't explain what they want? Give a cad operator the information you want hom to work with on a drawn piece of your lunch bag and cry when they don't get it right. The second or third time they loose their enthusium. If they could really read minds they could get a job in Las Vegas.
Most cad operators get trained in how to draw,not how to design. When they start they are drafters, you have to train them to be designers.

And last people will perform to your expectations. You don't have to tell them what those are, they will pick them up by observing your attitude and behaviour. IF you expect crappy work and are always bitching and moaning guess what your gonna get.

 

[JsTyLz]

Thanks for agreeing.

As for engineers that don't know how to model, I should take that back. Some do and some don't... I guess on whole if you have no common "mechanical" sense, than desinging and dimensioning a part intuitively wouldn't even fire a single neuron in their head. Example... I used to get models, (same modeling program, same version) from a japanese sister company of ours where instead of reviewing the history tree, or whatever your program has that keeps the history, and finding the line that corresponded to the hole to be changed. they filled in the holw with one extrude and made another cut on another extrude. All the while they could have just modified the current hole.

 

[waskillywabbit]

Remember that you are the only one who is perfect and it is everyone else who is incompetent and lazy.

Geesh...this thread sounds like a bunch of old women at a church social.



Brian

 

[JsTyLz]

BJC
obviously you are not an engineer, or you are on the union for drafters of the world... In today's world someone that is not proficient at anything besides what there job description details or what I have to birddog them about should get 14/hour or less. I've said it before that drafters are obsolete in todays world, but designers, people who use intuition, past experience, and general creativity to work with the numbers guys like me, are not. Listen, I used to model and draft everthing I designed, all the while checking my own drawings two and three times, because my previous boss had no technical background. Taking it upon myself to learn the most efficient way to model, dimension, and draft drawings was not my job, no one told me to do it, but it had to be done or the prints would remain the same as they had always been, as pre-school fingerpaintings that my predecessors had done.

When talking/explaining myself to the designers/drafters,
if they have a question ask, I am not a mind reader either. I didn't know I had to tell them which plane to extrude that boss from, or to revolve instead of multiple extrudes would probably be better for this or that part... some things are self evident.

The level that I have to explain to one designer in particular is just ridiculous. I always ask once I have explained the job to him if he understands, he responds with answers like, well... I suppose....
I'm like sorry to interupt your solitaire game dude, but you are paid to do my drawings, and modeling I don't have time for, now friggen do them. I don't you have the same coworkers as me or you would use this forum to vent about them instead defend riff-raff you have no idea about.

 

[JsTyLz]

waskwillywabbit,
So if I am sarcastic and poking fun at myself and then you interpret that as for real, in a sense doing the same thing, is that like a double negative?

 

[JMirisola]

I can understand what you're feeling JsTyLz, in a way. I used to have to take the models and assemblies that engineers had created and fix them. I'd get assemblies that had so many meatballs in them it was easier to just rebuild the assembly rather trying to figure out what s/he'd done. I'd spend days, sometimes weeks, trying to make everything work, and look, like it was supposed to. The biggest frustration? When those engineers would get a hold of the stuff again...at least I had job security.
What's my point? Not all of us "CAD Jockeys" are idiots. Sometimes the idiots are on the other side of the table. Frustration can be a two-way street.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
CAD Administrator
SW '07 SP2.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

 

[Heckler]

I think this is a general lack of work ethic and entitlement issues which effects all careers.

I currently work with a drafter that fits the above title of lazy drafter. Although, I think he just takes advantage of the laid back work environment we enjoy working in. He does shoddy work and the sad thing is he doesn't try to improve.

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 3.0 & Pro/E 2001
XP Pro SP2.0 P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

 

[BJC]

JsTyLZ
I r an ngineer ( a dozen or PEs)with more experience than you are old I would bet.
What I was saying is that your technical skills are not near as important as your people skills. You ain't gotta em you may as well do your own cad work and let someone else do the real engineering. Drawing can keep you away from having to deal with people.
People doing as you expect was not original with me, it's been in the psych books for years.
I would suggest reading "The Human Side of Enterprize".
If you can't develope empathy and the people skills you'll wind up burried in a cube drawing your own widgets for the next 20 years.

 

[cudaracer]

I'll probably be banned for this, but I really beleive the situation goes both ways... I have worked with engineers who wait untill the last minute a job is due, then will unload fifty or so drawings and expects them to be done in two days, or they try to mark up 11x17 prints, and make the mark-ups look like a Rorschach Test instead of marking up "C" or "D" size.....

 

[ctopher]

You can see we have all worked with the same problems.
These are some of the reasons a lot of the work is outsourced.
If people would become engineers because they love it, the quality of the work would get better. I have worked with too many that think they were getting into a field with making the big bucks. Then they are frustrated because they now have tuition to pay back for a mediocre job.
Some become drafters/designers, because they don't have the $$ to go to eng school, or don't want to be an engineer, but like the this field.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[KENAT]

I agree it can go both ways, I'm sometimes on the receiving end.

However, out of interest, in a situation like this. How far do you go trying to make a difference with self reflection, "people skills" and taking advantage of that Psych minor you did at college etc. before you finally determine that the Drafter/Designer (or dare I say it, Engineer) is the problem and disciplinary action should be considered?

As to the $14 hour job, there are plenty of people who would get relatively excited by that wage (its something like double minimum), though they may not always be the ones with the knowledge or skill to be great at the job.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[sahinoz]

Where I work at, us engineers do all the modeling, drafting, stress/thermal analysis, etc. We don't have anybody with a drafter/designer title too. I should also mention that we are extremely efficient, I remember three of us getting done ~120 dwgs in a week.
The company is not small, (~2000 employees) but I don't know why we don't have the drafting/designer system.

 

[mechmama]

Don't get me started on CONTRACT drafters & designers. . .

One women we just hired spends at least 1 hour a day standing outside my cube speaking with her agency about her next assignment.

Also, I understand that our drafters are supposed to know how to CAD up what I give them, not interpret what I was thinking. However, I sketch out my stuff carefully with a straight edge and graph paper, not on the back of my lunch bag. And I assure you that my weld symbols are correct. Why can I not get back a carbon copy of what I provided in my hand sketch???? And why after 2-3 backchecks can some drafters STILL not get the weld symbols facing the right direction? All that's required is to take my sketch and check the print out of what he/she drafted BEFORE giving it back to me. All they do is draw, print, & return. . .

Sorry, I've been frustrated with one person in particular for a while. Many thanks to the excellent designers I work with daily who actually make my job easier. . .maybe their boss will give them more time to train some of our lousy drafters!

 

[Sprocket59]

I've noticed that this thread concerning incompetence contains poor spelling and grammar. Some sentences are unintelligible. Perhaps the ease of computer communication is corrupting engineers as well as drafters.

 

[Heckler]

One women we just hired spends at least 1 hour a day standing outside my cube speaking with her agency about her next assignment.

I would send her to her next assignment asap

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 3.0 & Pro/E 2001
XP Pro SP2.0 P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

 

[ajack1]

I am not sure it is laziness just following life’s golden rule that everyone below you is a worthless moron who is only there to add to your daily frustrations and everyone above you is only there because they kiss butt or were not good enough to do the job you are currently doing and are only there to add to your daily frustrations.

 

[zuccus]

I haven't seen a drafter that makes $14/hr in 5 years now. My low level guys make twice that much. Maybe this is your problem. Your not exactly attracting the top talent pool with that. Of couse I am in Houston, don't know what it is like in your area.

Zuccus

 

[JsTyLz]

Yesterday when I started this post I definitely was complaining about designers/drafters in general. But as I look back at what I was thinking about it was definitely about one designer I have worked with. I have worked with other designers that have the less years of experience than this lazy individual, but nonetheless had an opinion and would like it when I left some things open ended. This individual needs everything spoon fed and he acts like its an inconvenience to interupt his solitaire game to do some work.

 

[PEDARRIN2]

zuccas,

I think it is your industry and your locale that causes your drafters to make that much.

I work in the building systems design arena (plumbing, HVAC, etc.) and our senior engineers only make ~$29 an hour. Now that may be low compared with your industry but it is pretty normal for my field. Our designers start at about $14 an hour - drafters make less.

But all our drafters are supposed to be learning to become designers.