Lazy designers/drafters 12

[JoeVan1979]

thread731-193707

This topic is very interesting to me as are the opinions that have been expressed here but I am not seeing my side of the story being voiced. I'll try to keep it short.

I am a CAD monkey. I have referred to myself as a designer past depending on the position. Some may call it embellishing but I don't feel I'm wrong if, for example, I was trusted making decisions as to how and where components were mounted (even when all GTOL is at +/- .005 ) or what side of the street a trench was going to be.

The position I hold right now is new to me. It is a sales environment in a construction field where time is a factor. We rent/sell products and when requested provide drawings for concrete forming. We have a large product line which makes for many, many solutions to any problem.

I've seen a lot of complaints here about drafters being lazy and won't doubt them, but I think it needs to be said that often in my position a lot of time can be saved if engineering would keep in mind the difference between their position and ours.

I am often asked in this position why I did "this" and not "this", or why didn't I just do "this" and it's to the point where, now, my answer is always "because I'm a drafter not an engineer".

I am onboard when it comes to learning from mistakes being unacceptable. Being consistent is an absolute priority when drafting.

When someone asks what I do and I say drafter without fail it seems, they'll have the notion I can draw them a house or design a bridge. I'll explain to them it's more like this: Someone will bring me a song they wrote and want other people to hear. I make sure the mic is on sound is coming from both speakers and can be heard clearly. Whether or not it's a good song and all the parts are in order is (and should be for good reasons) on the engineer.

If you made it this far thanks. I must get back to work now. Probably look like I’ve just been staring at the screen for 45 minutes.

 

[sdz]

Like most other thing; it depends.
I've many times had a draftsman pick up an error or suggest a better way of doing something.
I've also many times had draftsmen who couldn't do basics or worse, didn't care.

 

[havesealwilltravel]

I think drafters/designers are a very valuable asset. They look at a project from a different perspective than an engineer. Typically, an engineer takes a myopic view of a design and misses the bigger picture. A drafter provides a second set of eyes to catch errors and fit the individual design into the project as a whole. At times the drafting process seems slow but they need to be thorough,

 

[ctopher]

I started out as a draftsman. I think all engineers should learn drafting skills, and machining skills, to be an engineer. I have worked with so many people that do not know how to create a drawing correctly, or dimension/GD&T correctly. Have a crappy drawing that is unreadable or not dimensioned correctly can add cost to a part.
I also feel anyone that creates drawings should get experience working in a machine shop.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, I worked summers for better then fours years as a Draftsman while I was in engineering school and during my last summer I was doing some basic design type work. When I graduated, the company offered me job as an machine designer. They gave me seniority credit for 25 months on day one and I didn't have to go through any sort of probation period, as they already knew my capabilities and qualifications. Besides, they offered me a salary which ended-up near high end of the range earned the year by BSME graduates from my university. Of course, I took the job and worked there another nine years, which means that when I left, I had over 10 years of seniority, with my summer months included, I left with a fully-vested pension, which I'm still collecting today.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[CWB1]

JMO after growing up in a diesel shop and working a decade in the trades before college, but drafting and machine work are both distinct enough from engineering that the knowledge and skills gained working in those positions are nearly useless to an engineer. Restoring antiques, renovating houses, and any number of other hobby activities have served me equally as well as the automotive, machine ops, and welding certs I've collected. If I had to set any sort of arbitrary non-college prerequisite for junior engineers, it'd simply be that they spend a few years living a low-income lifestyle to both gain healthy conservative financial habits and force/teach them to repair things rather than hiring others.

 

[ctopher]

but drafting and machine work are both distinct enough from engineering that the knowledge and skills gained working in those positions are nearly useless to an engineer

Sorry, but I disagree. Those skills are not useless. They can be used for effectively designing parts. Knowing standards radii, holes, etc, and how to create them, helps with scheduling and pricing of parts.
Most engineers that have never stepped foot in a machine shop will argue with me. A lot of them think they know how to make a part. I see non-standard radii and holes called out all the time, and on illegible drawings, that create long lead times to make the part.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '19
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[dik]

Drafting skills and site experience are invaluable to a structural engineer, IMHO.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[CWB1]

Sorry, but I disagree. Those skills are not useless. They can be used for effectively designing parts. Knowing standards radii, holes, etc, and how to create them, helps with scheduling and pricing of parts.
Most engineers that have never stepped foot in a machine shop will argue with me. A lot of them think they know how to make a part. I see non-standard radii and holes called out all the time, and on illegible drawings, that create long lead times to make the part.

I never said those skills/knowledge were useless, I said they were nearly useless. A good design engineer needs a macroscopic/mile-high knowledge of both drafting and fabrication among other specialties. They don't need to intimately know every detail of workholding, cutting/grinding/forming tool geometry/selection, speeds or feeds for a large variety of materials, inspection, nor how a specific machine's flex will impact its accuracy and repeatability near travel limits or various machine controls' programming quirks. They also don't need to know the best/most efficient way of drafting a 10-sheet print, only how to read/understand them and draft a half-decent prototype print. Many learn that in college design, drafting, and manufacturing courses, and a few hard lessons in the school shop/labs fabricating class projects. Others become reasonably competent on the job thanks to standard process designed to reject and prevent garbage from getting to drafting, nvm suppliers. Design isnt really a field necessitating much "real" job-shop or drafting experience.

I was groomed as a kid to takeover the parents' diesel shop, the grandparents job shop, and several other family businesses on the homestead. The first two did everything from working on custom semis to automotive machine work and hydraulics in-house, field welding, and line-boring on heavy equipment. Consequently I have far more formal education and certs in the trades than most bc of it, which actually became a pretty sore subject when siblings and I walked away for other careers. As an engineer I've worked primarily in design of cast, forged, welded, and machined parts and yes, I am better for the previous experience as I am all of my life's experiences. I have also known many who were my equals from entirely unrelated experience tho so wouldn't put mine above others, even hobby experiences. JMO but junior engineers would learn far more spending a year studying my shelves of trades texts than a year spent on the shop floor bc it would give them a more useful, broad but mile-high knowledge base.

 

[CWB1]

nearly useless to a USELESS engineer

Funny, that might hurt if I wasn't consistently complimented and paid near the top of the industry for exactly the opposite reason.