Luton Airport car park ablaze 8

[Pud]

My money is on an EV battery self-immolation:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67073446

Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.

 

[SnTMan]

"the man was arrested as a precaution"

Don't want him fleeing the jurisdiction I guess....

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[dik]

...but released on bail? Doesn't make much sense.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Sym P. le]

Book the responsible party for abandoning his burning vehicle while he chased his flight, expecting fire department to clean up after him. It's an interesting angle, given that he may have overheated engine components racing to the airport. Pure speculation, of course.

edit: Also, the video from rear is true, the video from front is fake.

 

[TugboatEng]

Ok, we're engineers here. Can someone please connect an overheating of an engine to a fire? Most engines will cease to operate if their temperature goes much above 265°F and anything above 235°F is severely overheating. Can anybody tell me which fluid or material in a vehicle will autoignite at any temperature under 451°F or 265°F?

Driving your car too fast should not make it catch on fire.

I have operated many engines in my careers and have experienced one fire. It was due to a substantial lubricating oil leak into the exhaust. The cause of the lubricating oil leak was the more interesting issue after the fire.

 

[Murph 9000]

DPF regen can be up to around 600°C / 1100°F, depending on the design of the DPF system in the vehicle. Driving fast might encourage the ECU to start a regen cycle. In some cases, the temperature is generated by injecting diesel fuel into the exhaust.

 

[Factoter]

Tugboat? Is this a setup?
‘ . . . anybody tell me which fluid or material in a vehicle will autoignite at any temperature under 451°F or 265°F?”

Strangely reminded of a certain famous Italian, to whom credit is given for the invention of the voltaic pile, Alessandro Volta:

“Each metal has a certain power, which is different from metal to metal, of setting the electric fluid in motion.”

 

[Sym P. le]

Range Rover and Ranger Rover Sport recalled for fire risks autoblog.com

Range Rover may have developed its reputation the good old-fashioned way (thefreedictionary.com - To perform some task in a way that is dated or antiquated but which is still able to produce reliable results).

 

[BrianPetersen]

Exhaust manifolds, turbochargers, catalysts, DPFs, exhaust parts to some distance aft of DPF particularly during DPF regen, can all have temperatures above what's needed to start a fire. Grass clippings, leaves, oil leaks, fuel leaks, etc all have the potential of coming in contact.

 

[LionelHutz]

A car with some piss-poor design work that ignites when it should not is quite different than a car that is expected to ignite if you simply "drive it too hard".

The rear video seems off to me considering that is a diesel vehicle. The fire appears to be to outside the vehicle at the left front and I can't see how a fuel line leaking diesel fuel out onto the ground would be burning that intensely.

 

[LittleInch]

I've just gone back and looked at the original fire footage from the bbc.

1) The car is NOT PARKED - It looks like it just stopped in the main thoroughfare and the tail lights still appear to be lit.
2) There is what looks like a fire extinguisher next to the car
3)The fire is definitely front left and there is now mention of a leaking fuel line which looks a bit more like it....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[SwinnyGG]

Can someone please connect an overheating of an engine to a fire?

Do you really need an explanation for this? It's not very complicated. Coolant temperatures don't tell you how hot individual components are. Overheating causes seals to fail. Failed seals can spray flammable fluids all over the place, including onto components that are at surface temperatures hundreds of degrees over fluid autoignition temps.

I was once in a severe car fire. Scary how fast they can go up. S197 II Mustang prototype when I was working in that world. Brake master cylinder had been assembled using incorrect parts in the prototype shop, shaft seal failed and sprayed brake fluid directly onto the drive side header. Two of us in the car; me driving, another guy monitoring data acq on a laptop. Went from 'was that a puff of smoke coming out of the front of the hood?' sitting at a stoplight to fully engulfed in about 10 seconds.

Only reason we were able to identify the failure was that the technician had assembled three MCs at the same time, and they all got the wrong shaft seal installed.

Glycol itself is flammable, and the flash point is very low. 200 degrees F or so.

 

[Murph 9000]

Thinking about it, I've actually had a fuel leak from a Ford/JLR/PSA 2.7 TDVi engine in the back left of the engine compartment. It wasn't a massive leak, generated a good bit of white smoke, but didn't get as far as an inferno. Only just thought of it, as it was a long time ago, with the discussion about the location of the early fire. I've no idea how common it is, and can't remember exactly what was leaking. I think the fuel delivery and return is in roughly that area, although it could vary a lot for different models and years.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I think that's where the air intake is where the flame was coming out. Seen them with snorkels on them in that area.

 

[human909]

I have done several free standing steel parking structures in Australia. None had fireproofing of any kind, as it wasn't required. Possibly, this will be changed with more modern vehicles and experience. These steel carparks were exceptions, as most carparks in Australia are cast in place, posttensioned.

I just thought I'd follow up on this. This is a photo from an newly built hardware store (Bunnings) in Melbourne, Australia. A massive complex, 2 stories of parking below the retail hardware store. Lots of big steel. Lots of cars. And a some EV charging thrown in. I will note that as I entered there were two quite large water storage tanks onsite presumably for the sole purpose of addressing fire.

 

[hokie66]

Fully sprinklered, by the look of it. Probably because it is not a freestanding carpark, but under a retail store above. I think most Bunnings stores have those large tanks, which collect the roof drainage. Fire fighting is probably the main usage of the tank water, but maybe not the only use.

 

[Factoter]

https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/.../RFModernVehicleHazards-in-ParkingGarages.pdf

Relevant fire standards for carparks and notable incidents 2020 and before. With images

 

[Murph 9000]

Looks like we have a little fake news in the thread. I'm sure it was posted here in good faith, based on how someone else had described it elsewhere, but MJCronin's "Another drone picture of the Luton Airport car park…" post on 14 Oct is actually the Stavanger Airport car park fire and collapse from 2020. Here's a report on the 2020 Stavanger fire which includes photos of the same collapsed structure pictured above:

https://risefr.com/media/publikasjo...re-in-stavanger-airport-cark-park-7-january-2

 

[Murph 9000]

Here's some real drone footage from Luton:

BBC News: Luton Airport fire: Aerial pictures show car park damage

 

[dik]

Interesting structure. HSS columns to US of beams with stiffeners to carry what I assume are column loads through the beams. The beams being continuous to minimise moment. The secondary beams at nearly 1/3 points to minimise the moment again and slightly offset from the columns as not to interfere with the column load transfer. If I read that correctly.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[human909]

Interesting structure.

It was interesting. If I'm there again I might have another look. To be honest I'm quite used to seeing poor steel design and detailing in Australian structures. Nothing seems badly amiss here, though I didn't look closely.

HSS columns to US of beams with stiffeners to carry what I assume are column loads through the beams.

Yes. This was the ground floor with two levels above. I would presume that HSS was used to minimise the surface area to mass ratio. In other locations of very high load where transfer beams were present heavy I-sections were used.

The beams being continuous to minimise moment. The secondary beams at nearly 1/3 points to minimise the moment again and slightly offset from the columns as not to interfere with the column load transfer. If I read that correctly.

I'd say you have mostly read that correctly.

I took the images below of one of the deeper transfer beams, maybe 1-1.2m deep. Only after looking at the photos did I realise that the beam seems to be aligned eccentrically to the column. I believe these photos are from the second floor.