Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04 49

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03

SF Charlie
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[Murph 9000]

Regarding the broken water line in the intermediate collapse video into the garage… wouldn’t there be much more flow from this line if it were a broken main or fire suppression line?

If the outdoor slab had dropped from I to M, or the elevator shear wall to N, there would be around 2 sprinkler pipes per bay broken, 6 to 10 pipes broken. As I understand sprinkler systems (not an expert), they are usually designed for something like 9 heads simultaneously at full pressure (i.e. the fire origin and surrounding 8 heads). Each head has a fairly small jet, so the flow looks plausible to me with many broken pipes.

 

[gonefishing2]

Hook Bar

 

[gonefishing2]

Was structural slab two layered pours?

 

[GPR_Tech]

It looks like it could be a Rebar chair to hold up the upper rebar layer. There are many different types.
.

 

[gonefishing2]

Stirrup that was under and not around rebar?

 

[jbourne8]

Nice doc from 2020. I think this quote in the minutes for the October meeting might be the curious thing he found - "The front drive area concrete thickness is not matching up to the as build drawings the Association has on file. It is suspected that when the building was built, they sloped the top side of the structural slab giving us various thickness on the slab."

 

[gonefishing2]

The J-Hook now is looking like they drilled directly over a beam below. Depending on which version of S5 drawing you look at, that beam is either between L and M under the planters, or that beam is 1/2 way between planters and wall

 

[Santos81]

It looks like it could be a Rebar chair to hold up the upper rebar layer.

Possibly. Thing is, the planters had a different configuration than what was shown on the original sets.

That last 1’11” slab drop from the 1st floor terraces seems to have been changed, with a beam or substantial drop cap added right where they took that core.

It’s still a bit early, but a few dynamic alternate load path models with those core points included reveals a very familiar footprint.

It still requires a trigger event and someone knows what that is. If the time of the TikTok video is correct, it narrows the individuals in the garage after it was taken down to two, and they’ve already left the country.

 

[bones206]

Granted it's just a fuzzy photo taken at an oblique angle, but this beam looked noticeably deflected to my eye as soon as I saw it. I added the red reference line.

 

[jbourne8]

This site has a lot more building permit info for individual units, and the docs from the gov site, but nothing new or interesting that I can see -

https://surfside.one/public-records-search/

 

[Mark R]

Granted it's just a fuzzy photo taken at an oblique angle, but this beam looked noticeably deflected to my eye as soon as I saw it. I added the red reference line.

A couple of other photos have been posted finding showing something like aquatic fumes all in the United mine project of the 6 we got hit making good Mike thanks what people thought was distortion but it's hard to tell from photos because in many cases the lens (especially wide-angle ones) have a tendency to distort images, especially straight lines. Besides any significant deflection of concrete would cause significant cracking of the beam.

 

[Santos81]

nothing new or interesting that I can see -

Since a few members here have been submitting FOIA requests, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to include historical land surveys, archaeological surveys, historical deeds, and plat maps back as far as 1824 or so. Quite fascinating.

 

[spsalso]

If you are concerned about lens distortion causing the curve in the beam, place similar red lines on those horizontal pipes. If it's lens distortion, they will all have curvature, too. In appropriate amounts (worse farther from the center of the photo).


spsalso

 

[jbourne8]

Distortion can be tricky to really verify on a photo but a lot of times you won't have the same problems vertically that you have horizontally, and you'll see more problems towards the outside edges of the frame. If you go to a part of the video where the beam is closer to the center of the frame it looks a lot more straight to me:

 

[Keith_1]

To put an end the whole OSHA, mechanical anchorage points to rest forever. I would never tie off on a roof point unless I could visually inspect every point, including the assembly that kept the rope from contacting any point of the rope. Fly an outrigger swing stage, with independent counter weighted points on the parapet I' am good to go.

I understand that steel construction with curtain walls do incorporated these things structurally, but structure of that class typically have crane to facilitate routine maintence, and are professionally maintained.

In this type of building, a single tie off as stated on the drawings is simply stupid, simply because there is no possible way it can support the swing stage necessary to periodically repaint/ repair the structure, and especially because we are no simply stupid enough to trust an expansion bolt.

 

[Lizard7709]

I wish purchase of rebar eaters (rebar cutting drill bits), or anything that can cut rebar, required a signed permission slip signed by an engineer.

The only way I can think of repairing that involves making a bigger hole or cutting deep grooves to epoxy bar in.

Looking at the drawings I’m bothered by them calling the rebar “wire mesh”. I feel it would be more appropriate to call it structural steel.

 

[gonefishing2]

 

[gonefishing2]

 

[jbourne8]

Thermopile - That seems unlikely, since it doesn't cover the jeep at all. Also, I find it hard to believe that the pool water is traveling that far.. and fresh water won't damage a jeep. There also seems to be another one on the other end of the garage, but it's mounted at an angle. Maybe an extra light they can turn on for car work or something?

 

[gonefishing2]

I figured the reason the Jeep was not pulled in all the way into parking spot was because of water damage, and that sure looks like the polycarbonate panels I used on my deck cover