Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08 20

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[JedClampett]

It's not helped by the laws:
[ul]
[li]A while back, inspections by government inspectors were the rule.[/li]
[li]But to keep taxes down to as little as possible, these inspections were delegated to the owner/engineer and called special inspections.[/li]
[li]But Florida, in their infinite wisdom, have removed the Special Inspections altogether. They replaced it with threshold Inspections. Granted, this building would have been subject to Threshold Inspections, I think.[/li]
[/ul]
I do a lot of work in Florida and the contractors get away with whatever they can. But that's no difference than anywhere else. But they're more likely to be load tested in Florida than in Kentucky.

 

[Demented]

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[Demented]

One thing to also mention, this is the time of the year the snow birds are away. It's 90% humidity out, and I don't care what the weather stations say, after 8-10 hours outside in the hot sun with little water and shitty pay, it feels like 150*F with a fireplace above you.

Work is at a rush rush rush pace right now. Everything needs to be done before the snowbirds come back from NY and NJ in the winter. There can be no sign of construction, no dirt, no paint smell, nothing. The spent a lot of money and you bet your tits it's gunna be done by the time they get here in November.

Living in these buildings, you will hear unpermitted construction at 1AM. It's not uncommon for contractors to live in fully furnished units while the owners are away. Not going down that rabbit hole, I just only bring that up because I've worked with those guys, and I've seen their welds get the check from a CWI and PE. It looked like bird dookie.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[spinspecdrt]

Unless you (the contractor) are not ready when the inspector/engineer arrives, or the work is incorrect and the inspector/ engineer has to come back again, or the concrete pump broke and the pour took 8 hours longer than planned, or the contractor can't read the plan and submits 87 RFI's about information that's already in the construction documents, or the contractor missed a bunch of dowels and needs recommendations on how to correct the problem (ASAP of course), or the contractor wants to change the design and the engineer has to spend hours on conference calls and reengineering the project, or or or or

 

[Demented]

Balcony damage extended into the interior?

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[gonefishing2]

Gomer says 'Surprise, Surprise, Surprise'

Edit: Shoring down to ground level? Interesting.....

 

[Demented]

Tighten her until she creaks, then back it off a quarter. It'll hold.

Also, shoring down to ground level? Who thought that was a good idea on that deck...|
I don't see that in the plans, but Im gunna go find that inspection sheet where he wrote there were no shoring plans on site.

 

[gonefishing2]

Please define ground level? Top of parking deck or bottom of parking garage floor?

 

[Demented]

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[Demented]

Please define ground level? Top of parking deck or bottom of parking garage floor?

I hope the images of the work are properly archived.

They were there for the balcony restoration. Would they have known the deck they saw with the pool was just the roof of the parking garage? It's suspected a resident forgot that. It doesn't seem like this crew was all that good, and this is what was doing the excavation, rebar replacement, and concrete repair of columns, slabs, and building exterior.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[gonefishing2]

Shoring should be specifically designed by shoring Engineer, and not just some generic 3 story shoring like you might do for new construction. These are old tired slabs, so that is not adequate.

I imagine they just thru up a 2x4 stud weather wall with no design considerations to load it would be carrying?

Edit: Generic meaning bracing down only 3 floors

 

[Demented]

Does anyone else who's reads the field report of Permit 09-00000261 get the feeling that the majority of the work was unsupervised? This field report seems like it only had a supervisor present when "major" stuff was being fixed, after an incident of something being repaired before it was looked at. The majority of it is like someone wrote out instructions for the laborers for the day and told to take some cell phone pics.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[Demented]

Yes, weather walls will be constructed of the cheapest 2x4 and the highest quality OSB $20 will get you from the Lowes. I can go snap a picture right quick of an entire condo done up like this for shits n giggles.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[Demented]

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[spsalso]

Speaking of inspections, I will be babysitting a partial rough electrical inspection tomorrow.

Around here (California Bay Area), there certainly are building inspectors from the guvmint. And there are fees for building permits to pay them. I think it works well, as long as the aim is quality work.

As far as contractors "trying to get away with things", I am lucky enough to never have worked with anyone like that--got my license in 1980.
I do NOT doubt that there are some, uh, sleazebags in contracting around here. I just don't travel in their circles.

And the fewer the better.


spsalso

 

[Softee]

Kilsheimer is saying that the basement walls could still collapse:

https://youtu.be/d_IwENgVTX0

 

[Demented]

Well lookey here.

 

[zebraso]

crushing a mans foot leading to an on site toe amputation

The same thing happened at a facility I once worked at. Crushed ankle and permanent disability resulted. Ironically an engineer was directing two unqualified people in the process. He was in too much of a hurry to call the porters. Also ironically there were once placards all over this company's facilities which read: " No job is so important and no service is so urgent-that we cannot take time to perform our work safely". But somewhere along the line these were discarded. You can figure out the name of the company from that slogan. Also I might add the just because someone has a PhD in materials science does not mean they should be directing the movement of heavy equipment.

 

[Demented]

If you shore all of the balconies to the pool deck using 4"x4"x72" wooden logs, which slabs yield first if someone gets a little over zealous and wants to double make sure the balcony isn't gunna crash down on them from above, so they give it a little extra oomph on the handle? Never underestimate the torque a laborer on his 4th RedBull of the day can get out of a 12" handle on an acme screw, especially the little ones with something to prove.

 

[Demented]