Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10 79

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09


SF Charlie
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[Demented]

What was the date on that image?

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[Santos81]

What was the date on that image?

It’s indexed as 2021_06_23. I believe the flyover was the 22nd as all the other usable imagery from the 23rd is partially obscured by cloud cover.

There isn’t a geospatial metadata file along with it and no date in the exif data to provide the exact time.

 

[AusG]

Rebar pic:

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/ne...investigation-champlain-towers-south-collapse

 

[MaudSTL]

I think we have to treat all witness statement times as approximate. Who goes through their day watching the clock constantly?

In the Timeline file, I used a tilde (~) in front of all times we are approximating, which is most of them.

Exceptions are whatever has a known time stamp, e.g. 911 calls, the garage ramp video Adriana Sarmiento shot at 1:18, and Rosie Santana’s 711 Ring video at 1:22. I also include three times that Sarah Nir (111j reports, because she was using her phone to do time stamped emails and messages, i.e. 12:45 she sat down and noticed the knocking sounds, 1:10 she heard Collapse 1 (the sound of the wall above them falling down,) and 1:14 she went to the lobby to talk to the security guard.

 

[Optical98]

Santos81,

Re: Roof Image with Crane

That is odd because we know there were pallets of tar paper and small kettles still on the roof June 24th. There doesn't look to be anything like that on the 22nd, yet there's a crane in the Bluegreen Hotel's parking area? Granted that's a very grainy image.

What's the source, Google Earth? How can we get dated imagery?

 

[Nukeman948]

That is odd because we know there were pallets of tar paper and small kettles still on the roof June 24th. There doesn't look to be anything like that on the 22nd, yet there's a crane in the Bluegreen Hotel's parking area?

The whole purpose of having a crane is to lift things up to the roof that are too heavy or bulky for the elevator.
From the shadow of the building I would guess the time to be around 11:00 AM and if quitting time is 4:00 PM that means they have four hours to lift those items up to the roof and one hour to break down the crane for road travel.

Also, it looks like the roof anchors were done early.

Edit: Yeah, they also used the crane to raise and lower the tar buggies up and down from the roof to the tar kettle that stayed on the ground.

Tar kettle heats up tar, buggies are like wheelbarrows that are used to move the hot tar from where the crane can lift to, to where the workers need it.

 

[Optical98]

Nukeman948

So they wouldn't keep the crane there until the job is done to lower the kettles/buggies back down?

 

[rodface]

Nice image @Santos81.

I have placed the June-22 aerial alongside the hi-res Bing aerials and distorted/resized it so that the roofs line up (june 22 at bottom left, Bing bottom right).

I have enhanced the untouched June-22 aerial to try and bring out details (original top left, enhanced top right).

Full res attached:

https://files.engineering.com/getfi...-4ce9-9fcf-bd02ef2fbb09&file=8777_july_22.png

 

[Nukeman948]

So they wouldn't keep the crane there until the job is done to lower the kettles/buggies back down?

Not likely. I haven't seen the work schedule but they would need to patch the roof where they put the roof anchors and it looks like they finished the roof on the elevator machine room. It would make sense to wait for the AC guys (and other crews) to do their work before the new roof gets done so they don't damage it. The crane was probably scheduled to return in a couple weeks. There was no where near enough roofing material up there to finish the job and it would be in the way of the other trades. Job coordination sets the schedule.

 

[Spartan5]

I also include three times that Sarah Nir (111j reports, because she was using her phone to do time stamped emails and messages, i.e. 12:45 she sat down and noticed the banging sounds, 1:10 she heard Collapse 1 (the sound of the wall above them falling down,) and 1:14 she went to the lobby to talk to the security guard.

Kind of odd that Sara Nir sat around for 4 minutes after hearing the wall above them falling down.

How many different interviews did Sara Nir give where she mentioned a wall falling down above her? I’ve seen/read a at least a few where there was no such mention of that.

 

[MaudSTL]

How Robots Helped Out After the Surfside Condo Collapse: Responders flew drones night and day to survey the collapse and search for survivors

 

[Santos81]

That is odd because we know there were pallets of tar paper and small kettles still on the roof June 24th. There doesn't look to be anything like that on the 22nd, yet there's a crane in the Bluegreen Hotel's parking area? Granted that's a very grainy image.

What's the source, Google Earth? How can we get dated imagery?

Maxar provided the image; I realize now where it came from and probably shouldn’t have uploaded it but what’s done is done. It was linked into a briefing to show the staging area “the day before”.

The parking spaces on the north side of 88th don’t belong to that hotel. They are public pay parking that were blocked off for construction staging per permit issued, M-F 8:30a-3:30p, Public Safety Officer on site for parking enforcement and traffic control.

The items you mention are very close to, or in some cases, exactly where they were positioned at the time of collapse with the exception of the crane and boom lift as they were stored off-site. The tar kettle trailers were stored outside the building on the north side behind the half wall spanning between the garage ramp and contractor parking.

Nice image

Heh…I may have inadvertently stepped in it this time. Thanks WhatsApp.

The only two notable things are:

- UPH work had progressed to the north side;
away from the magic parapet/heat pump/davit/737-8/Ro-Ro/etc…

- Heavy Equipment staging position

 

[Optical98]

Good article Maud!

This is interesting -

"Unmanned ground bomb squad robots were reportedly used on at least two occasions in the standing portion of the structure during the response, once to investigate and document the garage and once on July 9 to hold a repeater for a drone flying in the standing portion of the garage. Note that details about the ground robots are not yet available and there may have been more missions, though not on the order of magnitude of the drone use."

This is great tho -

"drones were used to read license plates to help identify residents, search for pets, and document belongings inside parts of the standing structure for families. In a novel use of drones for physical interaction, MDFR squads flew drones to attempt to find and pick up items in the standing portion of the structure with immense value to survivors."

 

[Reverse_Bias]

Kind of odd that Sara Nir sat around for 4 minutes after hearing the wall above them falling down.

How many different interviews did Sara Nir give where she mentioned a wall falling down above her? I’ve seen/read a at least a few where there was no such mention of that.

She probably needed to put on some shoes and gram some things. Maybe it took her a minute to make up her mind and walk down there.

Also one reason I think the Nirs might have thought the noises were coming from above is because there would have been a strong echo off the balconies and the plaza ceiling. It may also be a translation error.

 

[warrenslo]

Miami herald article about missing records-mirror

No way, records are missing from the town of surfside? Related to this spectacular failure? And Ross prieto is implicated?

Fishy.

I noted this multiple times in my DIRECT communication with the 'town' (a subset of Miami-Dade "corruption" county.)

Quote (Red Corona)
@Js5180 if the two flashes are indeed the result of the conduits being cut in the corridor ceilings of 9 and 11

If electrics are in odd floors and that's what we think the blue light in x10 stack is then making those on floors 9 and 11 goes with the 'missing 13th floor' interpretation (see my floor correlation pic higher up the thread).

Were these flashes before or after the conduits got bent downwards by around 10 ft.? Were the flashes at the end of the conduits or at the meter bases? Where exactly did each phase wire fail?
As I've said before, you will never be able to prove anything to me by trying to interpret the flashes on that fuzzy video.

An odd (but accurate) explanation is many jurisdictions require electric meter rooms and their circuits every 2nd or 3rd floor. The purpose is to limit their staff time reading meters (which doesn't matter anymore today with smart meters.) This explains why every other floor had electric cut.

Nicolas Vazquez and his wife Gimena Accardi were in the elevator when the deck collapsed, having just parked in the garage. In his WhatsApp audio, Vazquez says that the elevator from the garage stopped at the lobby as usual. In other words, he is saying that the normal experience coming from the garage included the elevator stopping at the lobby.

What would be the purpose of programming the Honeywell to do that?

Once the Fire Alarm went off the elevator is to return to the "star" floor by code. In this instance, it appears to be the lobby. Please do not take statements of witnesses which have lost friends/loved ones/all of their belongings as literal statements. When Steve Wynn had his daughter kidnapped the FBI specifically told him NOT to talk to her because the first story is the right story then it changes from there...

Are you saying ... is not the roof surface hinged down?
What I'm saying and I believe, is that I see the floor 13 penthouse roof parapet intact in frame 22 (the upper most red line), And when I back the red shape into the previous frame, and realign it at it's bottom, that I can make out the PH roof parapet all the way back to frame 7. It fits with the idea that the whole stack has dropped about one floor at the start of the video. I'm definitely not sure what I see above (odd black shape) or to the left of it.
I'm definitely sure I don't know what I see above (odd black shape) or to the left of it.

THIS is exactly what I pointed out in Part 1, FYI...

Roof vs pool deck: were major structural defects identified and repairs required for both or just one of them?

As for “spontaneous failure” of the pool deck. It is a possibility. But I don’t think any has said conclusively that that was the case.

Sure, any number of things all more or less equally likely could have fallen from above and triggered the patio failure:
*space debris
*meteorite
*heavy suicide carcass
*cinderblocks, tar paper, and AC units
*drone missile (or just a large drone… I think I saw one with red paint on it)
*UAV
*malicious wheeling of tar buggy off the top
*Failed group BASE jump attempt from poorly installed roof anchor… well just the test anyway… with a green hoist sling full of those tar rolls
*(reserved for suggestions)

If only we had the whole videos. We could see if it was any of that. All are remote possibilities though. Right?

You act like buildings spontaneously fail. They don't. Concrete is brittle and makes weird cracking noises before failure (which the tenants heard) and steel (i.e. rebar) is pretty resilient deflecting more than its design weight before failing, thank you rebar. Spontaneous failure is a joke of a term FYI.

 

[warrenslo]

When the power went out, the front doors locked. Surely this would be a safety violation? Maybe the doors weren't actually locked, but when the other side of the building collapsed, it jammed the doors?

When the bulk of the collapse happened, it seems in photos that the stucco ceiling going across the front of the first floor detached from the slab and fell across the driveway and right over a black SUV parked there. I suspect that this blocked the front doors and it wasn't immediately realized in the dark and confusion.

Quote:

The guard was helping people escape from the basement. It's unclear how she got there, being as how there's no access to the stairs from the lobby?

Per 111 earlier statement, the guard climbed out the valet window then went BACK IN to help those who tried to get out. The single remaining stairwell dumped out into the pool deck (collapsed) and parking (flooded.) FYI, in most jurisdictions except City of LA (in my experience) this is still allowed. We need to change the code, at least one stair needs to be next to an elevator. The high rise code with standpipe addressed this (which applies to this) but with an 8-story podium we are going to have a real problem soon.

 

[warrenslo]

blah yellow blah

Do you work on neon signs in Vegas, please clarify your thought, I have the leading theory and didn't even read what you copied.

 

[warrenslo]

Take Away: Miami-Dade has a conflict of interest investigating Champlain Collapse due allowing the apparent irresponsible building of 87 Park adjacent to Champlain, with for example, damaging pile/construction vibrations as close as 10 feet from Champlain garage wall. Miami-Dade should have required vibration monitoring equipment be installed on adjacent buildings, by independent testing agent, to monitor and thus ensure pile driving/construction vibrations had no adverse effects to adjacent buildings. Surfside should have stepped in once notified of problem, and assisted Condo Association in legal action to require responsible construction techniques.

Excerpt from Structural Damage from Adjacent Construction Projects – Expert Article from Robson Forensic website, link below:
There are several ways that harmful vibration levels due to construction activities can cause damage to neighboring properties and structures. The most common include; damage to a structure directly from the energy of the vibration source, resonant structure response (i.e. the natural frequency of the building and soil matches the frequency of the ground movement causing uncontrollable shaking) and/or the densification of soils supporting a building structure resulting in settlement. All these vibrational effects can result in cosmetic damage and/or irreparable structural damage.

Vibration can occur from numerous construction activities, including:

Blasting
Pile driving
Compaction / dynamic compaction
Jackhammering / chiseling
Vibrofloatation
Pavement breakers
Demolition
Trenching activities
Heavy vehicle traffic
If construction activities which include potentially damaging vibration are scheduled to occur on a specific job site, it is imperative that one or all of the suggested measures below be implemented:

A well-planned due-diligence investigation and project coordination of neighboring properties. An example would be to determine if a neighboring facility has sensitive electronic, instrumentation or imaging equipment such as an MRI that may be disrupted by construction related vibration activities.
A pre-construction survey of all adjoining structures
A geotechnical report that clearly identifies the underlying soil strata and geologic conditions
Specifications for the control of construction vibrations
Pre-planning to avoid potential vibration damage by selection of alternate construction equipment. For example, auguring/pre-drilling piles as opposed to pile driving.
Construction logs of equipment and approximate time frames of construction
Vibration monitoring by a licensed testing agency
Building movement monitoring of neighboring structures by a licensed testing agency
Prior to construction activity, it can be desirable to establish a benchmark, especially if there is pre-existing damage such as settlement or structural deficiencies to neighboring structures. This particularly holds true if the building is older and would have a tendency for a lower tolerance of vibration induced damage.

Furthermore, forensic studies following a claimed damage event, to determine if a building was damaged by neighboring construction vibrations, should include knowledge of the geological conditions, where the vibration producing activity took place on the construction site, if there were any monitoring devices, and whether there were pre-construction surveys that could be evaluated as a bench mark for pre-existing damage. Therefore, it is imperative to document the location and type of construction activities which occur relative to the potential damage.

https://www.robsonforensic.com/articles/structural...

Roof anchor testing to larger loads than specified actually cause more damage FYI.

 

[warrenslo]

I just finished updating the Timeline: CTS Collapse Witness Statements spreadsheet to include Jonah Handler (1002) and Angela and Deven Gonzalez (904,) as it is conceivable that someday they might be able to share details about their experiences. I also reformatted the spreadsheet so that each link is in a unique cell, making the links easier to click, and added a Source column to indicate where the link came from, as some of the links are archived.

Please let me know if I need to make any corrections. And, if you have other sources that provide additional details for a survivor listed in this timeline, please let me know. As an example, I have read that several of you understand that Angela Gonzalez in 904 heard sounds from above, yet I was unable to find an article that says anything other than she heard "a strange noise." If anyone has a link that provides more detail, please provide it. Please note that my objective for this spreadsheet was deliberately focused: the timeline only includes the survivors of the collapsed parts of the building, plus Shamoka Furman, the security guard.

I will continue to monitor news stories that feature the survivors from the part of the building that collapsed, in case we can get any additional clues from their remarks. Until we get new information from the survivors included in this timeline, I don't foresee making any other updates to this particular spreadsheet.

Please correct your spreadsheet, the inspector states they were "replacing" anchors. They were "installing" anchors where none existed before. Key INFO!

 

[MaudSTL]

They were "installing" anchors where none existed before.

The spreadsheet already says this.