Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10 79

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09


SF Charlie
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[Sym P. le]

The concorde passed over our house one day while taking off. We got out of the house in a hurry, if not just for the spectacle of the yet unknown cause of the racket.

I too tried looking for weather data for the Miami area and quickly gave up. If anyone knows of a good source, please post.

Although I am not quick to dismiss roofing activity as a potential source of a triggering event, I have yet to see anything close to convincing evidence. I suspect the weakest link is the above ground parking adjacent to the thirty foot span between pool deck columns, i.e. design, construction, environmental and maintenance issues associated with same.

 

[Sym P. le]

It wouldn't be unreasonable for an informed occupant to prepare for a time when authorities gave short notice that the structure represented an imminent hazard. That the situation played out as it did is horrific.

 

[AusG]

The witness timeline reminds us of the "first collapse". Something at 1:10, apparently inside the building, let go before the main collapse of the pool deck at 1:14. What was it? Logically it occupies a place on the pathway to full collapse as either (A) an event that precipitated the deck collapse, or B an event related to impending but not yet full collapse of the pool deck (?catenary force on the columns?). Thus: collapse1> pool deck collapse> general collapse; or: deck distortion> collapse1 inside and then deck collapse outside> general collapse. (arrows are causal links as well as a chronology). Otherwise we need a different event again and as has been often stated there is no direct evidence of additional events. Either way the Nir's Collapse 1 seems worthy of further thought. I noted that some other published models/reconstructions have walls breaking in the lower floors before the pool deck fails completely, but no (other) evidence was given to support this.

 

[Sym P. le]

An important note regarding the emergency stairway exits. Once the elevators cut out, only the first floor residents had access to the building front entrance and thus direct street access. Anyone coming down the west (main) stairs would be led onto the pool deck or into the parkade. Once the pool deck collapsed, that exit option was blocked and the only means of egress was through the parkade which, of course, was at least partially collapsed and required navigating the debris or retreating to higher floors to await FD assistance.

The east stairs were a death trap as they only offered the parkade as an escape route.

Perhaps a rethink of emergency exits is necessary if not already done.

 

[Demented]

@MaudSTL
I have no issue adding stuff to a sheet. I'm all for it, and TBH don't remember why I didn't post on it initially. I would have to go through it all again since my original notes were mostly focuses on trying to calculate how much more weight was added to the slabs which I quickly gave up after realizing the scope of the bafoonery at play on the entire non-Collin's Ave side of the building.

I'm still waiting on a lot of documents regarding the permits, and clarifications on actual locations of things, such as the crane location for the T-Mobie tower upgrade. There's some interesting things here in regards to the proposed placement of the crane and it's actual specifications on reach.



@Sym P. le @Debirlfan
Although I do not have historical data for that day, I was in the area (edit: I was fishing. There started to be some tropical fish kills due to large upwellings of colder water more north of Miami-Dade as well that week beginning on the morning of the 23rd). I'm sure the NOAA has historical data somewhere.
Mid day temperature reached 91*F. Winds were a constant 5-10mph throughout the day, E to ESE, with the occasional gust up to 15-20.
Around 4:40-4:50 the afternoon thunderstorms began dropping around 5/16"-7/16" of rain between then and 8PM or so.
Maximum observed wind was gusting up to 24mph.

Edit: @Sym P. le
The MDFD radio chatter as well as 911 calls give a good look into the emergency exit layout. Everything was cut off from the ground floor. People couldn't get out, and 911 calls were made from inside the collapsed section before it fell; I still don't see how people are under the assumption that residents were not up and trying to flee.

Morabito was adding fire doors to all the stair wells I believe. Well, planning to.

 

[Sym P. le]

Thanks for your response.

I forgot about the potential crane issue, it will be interesting to see what's up with that. OTOH it might be difficult to connect subtle northside slab damage with the pool deck collapse.

By your observations, there is no reason to suspect rainwater accumulation leading up to the collapse.

I was dumbfounded as I came to the realization that the stairwells represented a false hope to emergency egress.

Was Morabito adding doors or just replacing them?

 

[Demented]

In the days leading up there was roughly 2.88" of rain total in the area. With the clogged drains, rain accumulation on the damaged deck is still likely a factor.

As far as north slab damage, I agree it would be unrelated. It would only serve as more evidence of negligence or ignorance by town officials in regards to this building's actual structure.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[MOJOJOHN]

Does anyone know of any close up photos of the rebar so 60 grade can be verified?

I did not see 60 grade marks or double lines on the ones I saw.

The plans specified 60 grade. Was it?

Regards,

Mojojohn

 

[MaudSTL]

the Nir's Collapse 1 seems worthy of further thought.

What’s tricky about the 1:10 AM Collapse 1 (which sounded like a wall collapsing above) is that the Vazquezes didn’t report seeing concrete rubble in the garage when they came in right before the 1:15 AM deck collapse (Collapse 2.)

Just five minutes before the deck collapse, something fell somewhere that didn’t impede driving down the ramp and parking.

We don’t know which parking space the Vazquezes were assigned.

 

[Auri]

I've tried to look up the local weather for the day and night of the collapse

14 miles away is the Miami International Airport weather station. Preceding the collapse there was about 1/3 inch of rain in the 5-7pm timeframe and a mild <10mph easterly breeze (that means going from east to west). Air temperature was a pretty constant 81 F.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/us/fl/miami/KMIA/date/2021-6-23

 

[Demented]

@MOJOJOHN
Original construction I am unsure of. Repairs used grade 40.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[rodface]

I believe this weather station is located in Surfside:

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KFLMIAMI597

Scroll down the page to “Weather History for KFLMIAMI597” and set the dates.

 

[Nukeman948]

Repairs used grade 40.

Were you able to confirm this or are you just reading off the prints? What @MOJOJOHN was asking is has anyone verified that what was called out on the prints is actually what was used? Substitutions and change orders happen all the time and contractors sometimes use inferior components to save money. We can not expect to know the truth of what happened by just reading off what was called out on the prints. That is why when we were discussing fire alarm systems I mentioned that I didn't know if the system was original, because I know that there are likely changes to components or programing that may not be shown on original prints or even as-builts. Proper forensic investigation practices require that what was actually used, (whether original or repair) gets confirmed and proven by observation or testing building components after the collapse.

 

[Optical98]

MaudSTL,

I scrolled thru hundreds of IG posts, some of the videos were from smaller Hispanic news stations and Journalists. I couldn't find a way to translate them on IG. But several of them looked like interviews of other people. It would be great if we could find someone that is Bilingual to translate a few of them. Actually if many of the original interviews could be found in the survivor's native language they would probably be more informative, would you agree?

Just a thought, though I'm sure MDPD has now taken formal statements from them by now.
And if it hasn't already happened... anyone joining in a lawsuit will be told not to speak on it anymore and any settlement will probably contain a Non-Disparagement clause.

So our window of opportunity is likely closing.

 

[Debirlfan]

What’s tricky about the 1:10 AM Collapse 1 (which sounded like a wall collapsing above) is that the Vazquezes didn’t report seeing concrete rubble in the garage when they came in right before the 1:15 AM deck collapse (Collapse 2.)

Just five minutes before the deck collapse, something fell somewhere that didn’t impede driving down the ramp and parking.

We don’t know which parking space the Vazquezes were assigned.

That's why I question whether something might have fallen outside onto the patio deck. Whether part of the roof, something that was on the roof, or even something from a balcony. If something fell, even if someone looked out, it was dark and they might not have seen it.

And I can't imagine how that staircase with no lobby exit was ever allowed. Kind of defeats the purpose of having an emergency staircase. Then again, if the front doors actually did lock when the power went out....

 

[Demented]

@Nukeman98
I actually didn't see any grade callouts in the repair contracts either. Need to look more.
100% assumption based off of close-ups of rebar in known repared sections that didn't have grade markings on it. May have a screenshot on my home computer, but videos and pictures from a certain resident of the other building are no longer available which sucks.

Thankfully photos of these repairs were taken before, during, and after. Unfortunately, they seem to be unable to be provided by Surfside and they're deflecting that off to Miami-Dade.

I'm still trying to find out how the new rebar was coupled to the existing, if it was. They were doing weld repairs on units at the same time as well.

 

[SFCharlie]

If anyone knows of a good source, please post.

Let me be the 37th person to recommend:
Miami, FL Weather History
I believe Rodface's is better, more local

I believe this weather station is located in Surfside:
Scroll down the page to “Weather History for KFLMIAMI597” and set the dates.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KFLMIAM...[/url]

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[rodface]

@optical98 can you share any links of spanish-language interviews?

 

[Optical98]

Surfside Tragedy Spurs, Rather Than Slows, Miami’s Condo Market

https://commercialobserver.com/2021/08/champlain-towers-south-surfside-building-collapse/

"He (Peter Zalewski) predicts a surge in condo terminations as condo owners begin to scrutinize their own faltering buildings in the wake of Champlain Towers South’s collapse and face costly repairs to the tune of hundreds of thousands dollars with few new takers. The procedure allows developers to buy an entire property if more than 80 percent of unit owners agree to sell. Developers typically tear down the existing structure and construct a new one."

Spurs as in Developers and Investors see an opportunity...

 

[Optical98]

Rodface,

I'll have to scroll back thru them, will post some links in a bit.