Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10 79

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09


SF Charlie
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[Demented]

But they already told us construction vibration and flaws don't matter.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[gonefishing2]

Consider the Source.............

 

[spsalso]

So the building next door was completed two years ago, with the pile driving done sometime before that.

So why would you think the vibration contributed to the building falling? How would that work over such a long time?

I'm not seeing a connection.


spsalso

 

[Demented]

I'm thinking the rapid deterioration of the structure that started to happen in the 2018/2019 time frame after the initial Morabito inspection is the connection there, along Miami-Dade not taking due care to make sure they were not affecting the Town of Surfside, and the Town of Surfside's building official not giving a shit for lack of better language about the situation at CTS during the construction of the adjacent property. From the very get go there were concerns over the integrity of the ground around foundation of CTS by residents/board members as well as the integrity of the boarder support wall. There were some really well informed people in the CTS building it seemed. CTS residents/board members and Morabito seem, to my eyes here, are the only parties that cared about this building. Everyone else had blinders on.
Another fine example of the normalization of deviance.

The back and forth with the condo and the towns over the construction and the damage it was doing to their building is fairly well documented. Some of this even included styrofoam getting trapped in the deck drains and constantly clogging them, as well as other sand and dust debris, which is one of the contributing factors in the damage around the failed waterproofing just taking off exponentially.

It was so bad, construction crews were ordered to daily clean the 8777 Collins Ave lot. To make matters worse there, the Town of Surfside wanted to fine CTS for the debris left all over.

This situation is a whole lot more off-kilter than a building just simply collapsing in the middle of the night with no warning.

Covid certainly didn't help the situation either.

 

[CE3527]

Buildings are built next to each other every day, in every city, in every country, across the world. This includes buildings with deep foundations in urban settings, with next to zero clearance. It's unrealistic to look at this as some unique situation that caused the collapse. While I don't think anything can be ruled out, there is no actual evidence, other than circumstantial to make a connection between 87 Park and CTS.

Maybe it happens, but I have not seen a case where a Building Official requires one property owner that is building, to set up vibration monitoring for adjacent properties. I have seen where private owners have taken on the monitoring responsibility to protect themselves from adjacent property owners trying to come back and allege damage after the fact. Another common practice is performing a pre-existing conditions surveys (photos/videos) to document existing cracks and conditions before the vibration causing activities begin. I have seen lawsuits over this topic (i.e. you owe me a new house because of this crack in my wall).

I did find it interesting that the Town of Surfside posted a report on this exact same topic on its website along with other actual contemporaneous documents related to the building. My take was they were trying to point the finger at Miami-Dade, as the vibration theory would be the most convenient cause for them, allowing them to avoid their own liability.

 

[Demented]

Normally it doesn't happen, correct. That is where the history of the whole assortment of jackleg construction, maintenance, and repairs that went on with this building, from the permitted to unpermitted, takes it's place in the picture. This structure was inherently weaker than designed and originally built, from large sections of concrete being replaced at full slab depth poorly (Even the slump tests were trash at what, 9" with additional water added?) to the whole mess of where's the rebar. The concrete was trash.

Could construction and excess vibration to an already not structurally sound building contribute to it's rapidly deteriorating state and ultimate collapse, on top of multiple water intrusion issues and overweighting issues? Silly question, I know.


Surfside and Miami need to work together me thinks, rather than against each other.
However Surfside must also realize they need to take a step back. One of their officials, though a former employee, seems to have possibly done some major oopsies, and as painful as it may be, the brother that is the county needs to take over.

 

[MaudSTL]

Here’s an archived version of the USA Today piece that some were interested in reading. It requires no account.

“Building Collapse in Miami: A Number of Factors Could Have Contributed”

 

[gonefishing2]

Vibration Analysis Required by FDOT for roadway projects, so perhaps or perhaps not, private building construction needs similar protection in Florida? One would assume litigation is why FDOT changed their regulations, and that is what it typically requires in the private world if needed.

Within 200 feet for sheet pile installation, and Champlain garage wall was 10 feet from sheet pile driving? Gotta Wonder?

Construction vibrations are a known nuisance and can damage existing structures if they are not properly monitored and accounted for. As a proactive means to mitigate vibration damage claims, nearby buildings should be inspected prior to and after construction and monitored during construction.
For example, [highlight #FCE94F]on roadway projects in the state of Florida, the Florida Department of Transportation requires vibration monitoring on nearby structures. Based on Chapter 108-2 of the FDOT Standard Specifications for Road and Bridge Construction, during construction of retaining walls and foundations for bridges, buildings, and structures, all nearby structures within 200 feet of sheet pile installation/extraction, and within 100 feet of soldier pile installation/extraction must be inspected, surveyed, and monitored for settlement. In addition, when performing roadway compaction operations, all nearby structures within 75 feet of vibratory compaction operations must be surveyed and monitored for settlement.[/highlight]

 

[Demented]

As reported to Mr. Pietro on the 23rd of January, 2019, with not a care in the world given.

Gotta love that location for some trenching action.

 

[arbitraria]

@Demented, or anyone else - can any of you discern what kind of vehicle this is? Could be the lack of pixels but it doesn't look quite like a normal passenger vehicle. Or perhaps I'm just not imaginative enough...

edit: Second photo looks like it could be a Hummer? I'm realizing that's a planter behind it, oops. Carry on...

 

[Santos81]

Gotta love that location for some trenching action.

Care to explain what the perceived problem is?

 

[MaudSTL]

I just finished updating the Timeline: CTS Collapse Witness Statements spreadsheet to include Jonah Handler (1002) and Angela and Deven Gonzalez (904,) as it is conceivable that someday they might be able to share details about their experiences. I also reformatted the spreadsheet so that each link is in a unique cell, making the links easier to click, and added a Source column to indicate where the link came from, as some of the links are archived.

Please let me know if I need to make any corrections. And, if you have other sources that provide additional details for a survivor listed in this timeline, please let me know. As an example, I have read that several of you understand that Angela Gonzalez in 904 heard sounds from above, yet I was unable to find an article that says anything other than she heard "a strange noise." If anyone has a link that provides more detail, please provide it. Please note that my objective for this spreadsheet was deliberately focused: the timeline only includes the survivors of the collapsed parts of the building, plus Shamoka Furman, the security guard.

I will continue to monitor news stories that feature the survivors from the part of the building that collapsed, in case we can get any additional clues from their remarks. Until we get new information from the survivors included in this timeline, I don't foresee making any other updates to this particular spreadsheet.

 

[MaudSTL]

@Demented, would it be helpful to the group to have a spreadsheet to collect your research into permitted and unpermitted work? I would be willing to set up an input form that writes to a spreadsheet, if you and others would be willing to use it.

FWIW, no one used the previously developed input form/spreadsheet for theories and hypotheses, so it may be that this group finds no value in that kind of compilation or collaborative deliverable. In IT, which is where I have been since my long-ago stint as an outside plant engineer (a specification job,) we don't talk about anything without documenting our work to benefit the team and avoid going down the same rabbit hole more than once. So some kind of deliverable is force of habit in my world. If it's not something that SEs and other engineers need after all this discussion, then that's fine too. Just let me know.

 

[Reverse_Bias]

The one inconsistency that is bothering me in the witness statements is Vazquez/Accardi didn't report seeing any debris in the garage from the first 1:10 wall collapse. It should have been obvious since it probably was near the end of the entrance ramp.

It's possible it whatever fell fell between parked cars and obscured from view. More likely they did see some debris on the ground and just forgot to mention it in their statement.

 

[Debirlfan]

Don't know if you want to add this to your witness statements - Describes how Justin Willis and family escaped and what they saw.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports...NH61PYVkY3LtgxPysIYLN0n1dJOX6jCtF-cRR1Ddljhgw

 

[rodface]

@MaudSTL a Wiki would certainly come in handy here...

 

[Sym P. le]

From the ESPN article,

"Three loud bangs roused Willis from the living room couch. They came in succession, starting with the familiar boom of what sounded like a coastal storm, escalating until Willis thought a jet was taxiing on the roof. His parents, Albert and Janette Aguero, jumped out of bed. They didn't know what was happening either. His father went to the balcony. Firefighters had arrived below. Concrete dust filled the air. Get out!, a firefighter shouted. So they headed through double doors that led to the hallway ...

They remember leaving their condo at 1:25 ...

THEY SNAPPED PICTURES from the beach. That's how they knew how long it had been. Janette's photo was time-stamped at 1:36 a.m. Albert's said 1:38 ..."

The three loud bangs are interesting, one likely the parkade and another at least one phase of the main building collapse.

 

[Sym P. le]

The forum can be a lonely space. That doesn't mean your contributions aren't valuable.

 

[Debirlfan]

A thought regarding the ESPN article:

It wasn't until after the third bang (and probably the lights going out?) that they were concerned enough to investigate what was going on. Some here have said that the collapse couldn't have been triggered by part of the roof/something on it falling because residents below would have noticed and reported it. Well, it took half the building collapsing to get these people off the couch, and they were awake whereas others were probably sleeping.

I've tried to look up the local weather for the day and night of the collapse, but have been unable to find it. I think someone said that the roofing crew quit early because it started raining? And that it was windy that night? If that's the case, I could picture tools or materials not being secured properly/a particular job not being completed because the guys wanted to get out of the weather. Wind gusts could blow loose items around.

 

[arbitraria]

@Debirlfan and Sym P.le - I'm curious about this bit from the article, this is the first time I've seen this information:

"The family eventually found the street through a neighboring building and headed to nearby Harding Avenue, where a woman with a suitcase told them that she was packed and ready for something like this to happen. She left after the first bang and watched part of the building disintegrate."

It's interesting from a timeline perspective (granted, she may have been on a lower floor close to the exit) that she heard the first boom, had enough time to grab a suitcase, evacuate and observe the building collapse...also, was she ready for something like this to happen because she's an anxious person who needs to prepare for any possible scenario, or was she aware and increasingly nervous about issues within the building?