Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13 44

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12


SF Charlie
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[dik]

As noted before, the inadequate cover brings the repair into question...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[TheGreenLama]

As noted before, the inadequate cover brings the repair into question...

Agreed. The viability of that repair is highly dubious. I'm just stating that Morabito saw problems with the existing conditions.

if the rebar had been adequately protected from water intrusion, would the deck have failed?

An equally valid question. As the building stood for 40 years with poor waterproofing, my guess would be it would not have failed.

 

[Demented]

Morabito was voiced concerns by the Board about shoddy repair work in specific locations as well. The board and long time residents were worried of being ripped off again, especially since they had never spent more than $2m at once on a renovation project before, for the same scope of work. Roof, balconies, deck repair, landscaping, etc. Morabito had more than one reason to be concerned with past work.

 

[CE3527]

Major repairs were slated for some of the column caps. Which ones we can only guess at, as they are not even clearly indicated on the plans (Sheet S2C-1.0, note 10 of the 40 yr restoration Link).

Actually, it is clear from this version of the Morabito plans where the "new slab drop panel" detail was planned. Note 10 on S2C-1.0 defines these locations with a box with a dash line. If you look at the driveway area near the west end of the site, you will see where this condition is outlined at several locations. You'll note that none of the pool deck slab areas were calling for this added reinforcement in this set of drawings.

 

[TheGreenLama]

Actually, it is clear from this version of the Morabito plans where the "new slab drop panel" detail was planned.

Thanks for that. For the life of me I couldn't locate them. By the way, here's a working link to those plans Link. The one I included above is in error.

So then it appears that Morabito WAS satisfied with the existing column top and slab design. That's very unfortunate.

 

[Optical98]

If anyone is interested>>

Watch Live: Surfside Town Commission Meeting - September 14, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0K9g95LsEU

Kilsheimer starts speaking around 22:50

 

[MaudSTL]

Broward committee recommends changes after Surfside condo collapse

Related press release.

 

[AusG]

Re the Broward county list. Interesting that the only specific technical mention was "better quality concrete".

 

[apper.42]

Re Broward county list.

Absolutely nothing about rebar placing and inspections, submission of concrete cylinder tests, inspection of concrete placement, provision of suitable waterproofing in seaside settings etc. etc. Oh and this is based on expert advice??? Better quality concrete than what??

 

[dik]

Unless I missed it, there is nothing that would have prevented the original collapse, and/or future collapses.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[spsalso]

I think the point is to APPEAR to be doing something, while directing the responsibility to others, preferably not in government positions.


spsalso

 

[Reverse_Bias]

Re the Broward county list. Interesting that the only specific technical mention was "better quality concrete".

Surfside isn't in Broward county, so kind of irrelevant.

 

[spsalso]

Surfside isn't in Broward county, so kind of irrelevant.

Except that they're sending their clever ideas to the state legislature. And Surfside IS in the state. So it is sorta relevant. To Surfside.


spsalso

 

[MaudSTL]

The Miami Herald has published an infographic that shows which units had no fatalities, which units did have fatalities, and who those people were. Remembering the victims of the Surfside tower collapse

I have added this link to the Collapse Witness Statement timeline.

 

[AutisticBez]

Should local small towns be in charge of such a big thing?

 

[spsalso]

Should local small towns be in charge of such a big thing?

Like, for example, San Francisco and the Millennium Tower?

I am not at all sure the States or the federal government have demonstrated an overall superior ability.


spsalso

 

[FacEngrPE]

Florida publishes their own building code rather than having the ICC included by reference.

https://www.floridabuilding.org/bc/bc_default.aspx

The document is actually published on the ICC site

https://codes.iccsafe.org/codes/florida

so the exact relationship is clouded.

Given the way Florida has structured this relationship, the only way to recommend changes to the Florida building code is probably via the legislative process.

The press release did not appear to have any recommendations that would cover a situation where the jurisdiction waives rules.

 

[SFCharlie]

Like, for example, San Francisco and the Millennium Tower?

Ok OK, Please be gentle_
The City (as SF likes to call itself), is a city of artists, artists with no taste, but artists still, not engineers. They have the worst schools that spend the most money... ups, off topic.
So, I know you're all jealous of our Mediterranean climate, but give us a break...
To the south we have the valley, engineers with more taste than the City (not saying much), and to the north we have wine country. (where we're all stoned...)
(sorry, I'm only on my first cupa coffee, way out west as it is...)

 

[MaudSTL]

The Miami Herald has published a long piece called
Ordinary moments turned extraordinary in the final hours before Surfside condo collapse that combines the collapse timeline (which either validates or is based on on the CTS Witness Collapse Statement Timeline) with human interest snippets from interviews with survivors and relatives of survivors. It does a much better job of sequencing the experiences of the Nirs (111,) the Vazquezes (garage and elevator,) and Security Guard Shamoka Furman (lobby) than previous stories have done.

The descriptions have embellishments that are not direct quotes (having no quotation marks) and may or may not be accurate. For example, there is a new description of the pool collapse experience in the lobby:

Nir walked down the hall to the lobby and complained to security guard Shamoka Furman, who was working the graveyard shift. As they discussed the noise, which Furman thought was coming from the elevator, the floor rippled like an ocean wave beneath their feet. They heard a sharp whirring sound, like a drill.

They don’t attribute the descriptions of the floor and the drilling sound, which are new details.

I also think they get some details wrong due to artistic license and lack of understanding of the building plan. For example, they have Sarah Nir looking through the lobby glass and across the collapsed pool deck at her unit’s patio on the other side of the planter in the brief time that she observed the cars sticking up out of the nearby collapsed surface parking.

At about 1:15 a.m. Nir dashed toward the lobby windows, looked south toward the surface parking and pool area and saw that the deck outside 111, by the concrete planters that enclosed her patio, had caved into the underground parking garage. Cars were swallowed up, smashing like toys into the vehicles below, jutting into the air at odd angles.

Sarah Nir has not stated in previous interviews that she saw the pool deck collapsed by her unit, and this description is not a quotation. So I am still skeptical that she actually looked beyond the collapsed surface parking, which is all she has described in video interviews.

The Miami Herald also has Ileana Monteagudo (611) exiting the stairs into the lobby, which we know is not possible because the staircase exited onto the pool deck at the lobby level.

Monteagudo got down the final four flights and shoved open a door into the dark and smoky lobby. She turned on her cellphone flashlight. She heard water gushing and people crying for help.

Ms. Monteagudo has always said she exited directly into the garage, which is where Ms. Furman found her and guided her out of the rubble.

I have added the link to this piece to the CTS Collapse Witness Statements Timeline.

 

[Optical98]

MaudSTL

Thanks for the article link. I haven't even read it yet because I'm so perplexed by the description of "a whirling drilling sound"...oy >.<

Possible elevator car cable slipping? All of those bursts of light on the roof by the elevator housing we see in the collapse video... could be connected? We'd have to have the timing of the video to the statements but we're missing the first few seconds of that video...

^ just contemplating...