Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 17 14

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 14
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 15
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16


SF Charlie
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[FJBnomics]

What I am seeing is structural slab draped due to middle deflection South of and between columns. So stamped concrete followed structural slab deflection, but was left up and did not collapse to garage floor in those areas when structural slab punched.

 

[zebraso]

I am pretty sure that makes sense. So then the stamp-crete was adhered to the slab pretty well or not? Because from what it appears in general from other photos the stamp was not bonded well to the slab. Not that you would expect it to be. I could be missing your point though.

 

[SFCharlie]

...the stamp was not bonded well to the slab. Not that you would expect it to be. I could be missing your point though.

Core samples taken in other areas of the pool slab show the slab wasn't very well bonded to itself, having delaminated at the rebar planes, for what it's worth (FWIW).


SF Charlie
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[FJBnomics]

My only point is on South side of 71/73 columns you see evidence of deflected deck causing punch shear at columns. Note the unzipped structural slab on south side separating from stamped concrete topping. But then just North of columns you see the structural slab and stamped concrete sheared together in a nice clean edge.

My thinking is this clearly shows collapse progression from South to North, and it is interesting how we have different types of failure modes in different locations.

Edit: Which in my deranged mind, confirms theories of South Wall detachement, and/or loss of South Side of S-N rebar, leaving only E-W rebar to hold up parking garage, which it cannot do by it's self.

 

[zebraso]

Also that clean edge was less exposed to repeated saturation because it's under cover and there should be no drainage toward it. It may be a look at one bit of undeteriorated concrete shear. It looks like a clean cleave as you said. No reason to think it's a construction joint. The section to the left would have had water draining onto it which flowed past from the pool deck via the gate. So you are saying the bars here failed in tension. There would have most likely already been a crack here before the collapse.

 

[Reverse_Bias]

If the concrete sheared in a straight line parallel to the stamped concrete lines, I'd expect the stamped concrete to crack along the nearest line, which is at most half the width of one of the tiles.
The tiles look ~4" wide, so I expect a 2" difference at most from the edge of the slab.

 

[Debirlfan]

I don't think this has been posted? Ring camera from inside the part of the building that remained standing. Doesn't really show anything, but you can hear the collapse.
Link

 

[zebraso]

I assume the tv station arbitrarily dubbed the audio sequence onto the video for dramatic effect. But aside from that it could be fairly revealing evidence, if, and only if a full length uninterrupted audio recording can be synch'd with the entire sequence from start to finish. That would be an ear witness to the whole thing. I don't know if these tv reporters even comprehend that.

 

[Nukeman948]

I assume the tv station arbitrarily dubbed the audio sequence onto the video for dramatic effect.

And the moon landings lever happened because they never showed the full length uninterrupted sequence from start to finish?
A ring camera will usually miss the first thing that triggered it and could never survive to the very end.
I understand your lack of trust in the news media, but at some point you have to accept the evidence that is available and weigh it against the evidence that contradicts it.
It is a shame that they superimposed the building collapse video over this video for dramatic effect, but there is no evidence that the audio has been altered.

Edit: You can change the word "altered" to "edited", "changed", "transformed' or anything other synonym, but my point still remains that there is no evidence that the TV station showed any nefarious intent in what the video contained.

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[Debirlfan]

A ring camera will usually miss the first thing that triggered it and could never survive to the very end.

I believe this camera was located in the part of the building that survived, but I assume it would have failed when the power went out? Not sure what would have initially triggered it, possibly vibration from the initial deck collapse?

 

[zebraso]

but there is no evidence that the audio has been altered

I am not thinking it was altered. It's just the time alignment context to the security video is not known. The actual time alignment of the audio to the event is not confirmed even though the effort to dub it as audio to the security video suggests that it is. My interest in that is that if the full audio actually starts earlier and it may well (like everyone wished the security video did) it might capture the sound of the initiating sequence and therefore help better confirm all the current witness statements and or add something new. Do you know that that is the entire length of the audio that exists? The reason the full length is needed is to confirm there are no gaps created by the camera starting and stopping, not because someone nefariously edited it.

 

[Nukeman948]

I believe this camera was located in the part of the building that survived, but I assume it would have failed when the power went out? Not sure what would have initially triggered it, possibly vibration from the initial deck collapse?

It was located at the doorway to an x05 unit looking straight down the hallway of the part that collapsed. The elevators are around the corner to the right.
Ring cameras are triggered by motion a certain distance from the camera. Not by vibration. I'm not going to speculate on what motion it picked up because then someone will demand that I defend my ideas and I don't care what triggered it. It may have stopped when it timed out or lost power (for models that are not battery powered) or lost internet service or wifi.

I assume the tv station arbitrarily dubbed the audio sequence onto the video for dramatic effect.
I am not thinking it was altered.

These two statements are in conflict.
They either altered it for dramatic effect or they did not.
If you believe there was more length to the video than what was shown, you should call the tv station and ask them.

I researched a link for those too lazy to do it themselves.
Link

Edit, Also: WSVN-TVSunbeam Television Corp 1401 79th Street Causeway Miami, FL 33141. Switchboard: (305) 751-6692. Newsroom: (305) 795-2777.

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[zebraso]

I think you are playing with the meaning of "edited" and "altered" to conflate them as to intent. To me altered is not consistent with edited for dramatic effect. One is nefarious and the other is not.

 

[MaudSTL]

Mike Bell has posted a video on an apartment building in Kyiv that took a direct hit from an anti-aircraft missile. The animation is superb. I must say it is refreshing to see a building that can survive a direct hit instead of falling down.

https://youtu.be/ZqMj5awA5R8

 

[Nukeman948]

"arbitrarily dubbed the audio sequence onto the video" is the phrase you used, not "edited", and it certainly sounds more nefarious than either the word "altered" or "edited". Only one of us is playing with the meaning of words here. It's not me.

Google the meaning of the word "altered" and see if you can find where it implies any sort of "intent".

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[zebraso]

arbitrarily dubbed the audio sequence onto the video

I don't know how saying arbitrarily connotes any intent at all. It's not more or less nefarious. If anything you can read incompetent into it but I don't see anything more than that. The way I see it, they did if for entertainment value to get viewership. Shock and awe is what I suppose they are going for. But as we have seen before this should not be misconstrued to extract "evidence" of anything. It's like the drawings of the deck to wall connection that are not based on any set of facts. I'm not sure where I said more than that as to what they did with the audio. The moon landing thing is way off.

 

[Nukeman948]

Link

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[dik]

You might think of opening Part 18... approaching 400 messages.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[IanCA]

It's like the drawings of the deck to wall connection that are not based on any set of facts.

Are you talking about the drawings I have posted? If so, I would like to assure you that I do take significant time and effort to try and align anything I post with the available drawings and photographic records and I am always open to suggestions. If you see specific discrepancies with the facts please mark up the drawing and post it here along with the evidence to support the changes so we can all learn.

 

[stcbus]

I thought we had ascertained long ago that the CCTV was stored on media rather than the cloud. If so, I think that if the storage device was salvaged, we would have heard MDFR mention it along with their other feats. And, things being how they are these days, by now some images would have been leaked. In addition, NIST was practically begging for citizen photos and videos. I am guessing they don’t have the CCTV videos.

The thing I don't understand, though, is I would assume from the original blueprints that the CCTV footage was in the security office, which was in the part of the building that survived IIRC.