Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse 151

[bugbus]

Partial collapse of 12 storey apartment building in Miami Beach:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-building-collapses-sparking-huge-search.html

Was built in 1981. Not much information as yet.

Building profile:

https://www.miamiresidence.com/surfside/champlain-towers.htm

 

[dik]

or that the matter was not brought to the attention of the authorities...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Mark R]

[link Kreemerz]Just incredible that people were walking by this on their way to their bedroom without any concern or alarm...
I'd be checking on the ground beneath it to see if there is any debris. That alone would certainly get my attention.[/url]
You have to remember that those of us here are engineers, the majority of if not all of the people who lived in this building were not technically oriented people. Thus they had no idea that if I saw stuff like this it was actually a problem for the buildings integrity.

 

[dik]

Even if I wasn't an engineer, I would be a little concerned... my problem is that when I'm out, I see things that many people miss, because of my engineering experience... I'm not even looking for them, but they seem to be noticed, anyway. I often spot wildlife, that others miss, simply because of the number of decades that I hunted... and I don't have to be looking for them.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Mark R]

[link dik] Damage caused by corrosion in minimised by using a high strength concrete, admixtures and thicker concrete cover to the reinforcing.[/url]
Also, in many areas epoxy coated rebar is used to limit the effects of salt on the rebar.

 

[JohnRBaker]

That's one of the curses for being an engineer. A non-engineer notices something like this and wonders what it is, we look and wonder what caused it, what might happen if nothing is done to fix it and if it was going to be fixed, how would you go about doing it.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

that too, there are a couple of issues with epoxy coated bars... the bond strength is diminished, and they are more costly. They do may (see below) work, but you have to use extra care in handling them. Nicking the coating can accelerate the corrosion at that location. Most roadwork and bridgework I've seen done in the last decade or two have used epoxy coated bars. Most regular construction, including parkades use conventional 'black' iron bars.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Burloak]

Many DOT's and Canadian provinces in the "freeze-thaw" zones have been moving away from Epoxy Coated Rebar.
The theory is that the epoxy coating wears down in the alkali environment of the concrete in about 30 years. Based on the concrete cover used on bridges - about 3" (75mm), but depends on location - it takes about 30 years for the chlorides to reach the reinforcement. So basically, just when you need the Epoxy Coating to work - it no longer works.

Our Concrete people always say that strength = impermeability is old-school. Many DOT's now specifically have permeability requirements and don't rely on the loose relationship with strength. Rapid Chloride Penetration (RCP) is the test done - but it is not that rapid as it usually takes 56 days.

 

[gwynn]

A bit off topic, but most of the bridge decks locally have gone to stainless or low carbon/chromium bars lately, with GFRP bars used in a few places. Epoxy coated bars are now only permitted on low volume roads here.

 

[dik]

Burloak and gwynn... Thanks for the added info... I'm of the old school... I think strength has an influence, even if reducing the carbonation effect as well as improving the (im)permeability, and concrete cover, for sure.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[GPR_Tech]

A close-up of the concrete damage at (Sister Tower) Champlain Towers EAST garage.

https://images.wsj.net/im-360760?width=1260&size=0.6666666666666666

 

[SFCharlie]

Is this part of the structure that is still standing? or another separate building nearby?

Do you have the url of the video?
Thanks

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Kreemerz]

I have a question regarding the alleged phone call with a woman who claimed to be in the building while she was on the phone with her husband just as this whole thing started.
She reportedly yelled "honey the pool is caving in, the pool is sinking to the ground".

From the recent photos, the swimming pool doesn't look very much like it's caving in or sinking. it looks surprisingly intact.

 

[Spartan5]

There is definitely an extensive collapse of the pool deck immediately adjacent from the pool.

And you are paraphrasing a quote of someone who was paraphrasing a quote of someone whose loved one was talking while in the process of being killed by a progressive building collapse that they were trying to make sense of after being woken up at 1:30 in the morning.

What’s your question?

 

[Kreemerz]

Well, the question was more in regards to what she was describing. I didn't notice the pool had drained. I initially thought she had described the pool as draining. But it seems that she was only describing that it was "sinking" or "caving in". I was trying to understand what she was describing.

Also, not sure where she was in the building.... and how one could see that pool actually caving in.

I'm assuming the story is authentic.

 

[dold]

@Kreemerz I think it's safe to assume by "pool" the eyewitnesses were describing the pool area. As in, the entire ground level slab that collapsed as can be seen in the photos. The pool itself had walls extending to the foundation, so it remained intact.

 

[Spartan5]

She was in 412.

FWIW, it does look like the very small pool (jacuzzi?) has drained.

 

[DavPc]

There are other reports (which I can no longer remember where I saw them) from employees at the building that minutes before the collapse, they were seeing flooding in the bottom garage level where the valet parking was located. At first I thought it might have been from the main pool, but the image earlier in the topic shows the pool is still full the next morning. It seems reasonable it was the spa that caused the flooding they saw, though it could also be a water line broke if the deck above was in the process of failing.

Also, a former mainentance manager from 1995-2000 who worked at both the South and North towers claims the South tower lower level garage would flood with saltwater during king tides and it was so bad the cars would be floating down there:

https://youtu.be/gh7cnY7PkLU?t=312

He goes on to say the North tower did not exhibit this issue. It's not a smoking gun, but if true, it is another example of there being serious saltwater infiltration issues going on at the property beyond just the improperly sloped promenade deck by the pool.

 

[waross]

Dik; I did experience one annual freeze thaw cycle.
The heater failed on my underground stock watering system.
I froze up in the fall and thawed the next May.
The frost goes down a long way and the earth is slow to warm up.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[epoxybot]

Hot, Moist, Corroding Concrete..., what is it they say about every 18 degrees C and the rate of chemical reaction doubles...?

 

[SFCharlie]

Condo Collapse: Former Maintenance Staff Manager Was Concerned About Saltwater Intrusion

Thanks for the URL!

Is this part of the structure that is still standing? or another separate building nearby?

Please find me the URL, and I'll sleuth it out.


SF Charlie
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