-
1
- #1
Partial collapse of 12 storey apartment building in Miami Beach:
Was built in 1981. Not much information as yet.
Building profile:
Was built in 1981. Not much information as yet.
Building profile:
Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet
Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse 151
- Thread starter bugbus
- Start date
[link Kreemerz]Just incredible that people were walking by this on their way to their bedroom without any concern or alarm...
I'd be checking on the ground beneath it to see if there is any debris. That alone would certainly get my attention.[/url]
You have to remember that those of us here are engineers, the majority of if not all of the people who lived in this building were not technically oriented people. Thus they had no idea that if I saw stuff like this it was actually a problem for the buildings integrity.
I'd be checking on the ground beneath it to see if there is any debris. That alone would certainly get my attention.[/url]
You have to remember that those of us here are engineers, the majority of if not all of the people who lived in this building were not technically oriented people. Thus they had no idea that if I saw stuff like this it was actually a problem for the buildings integrity.
Even if I wasn't an engineer, I would be a little concerned... my problem is that when I'm out, I see things that many people miss, because of my engineering experience... I'm not even looking for them, but they seem to be noticed, anyway. I often spot wildlife, that others miss, simply because of the number of decades that I hunted... and I don't have to be looking for them.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
That's one of the curses for being an engineer. A non-engineer notices something like this and wonders what it is, we look and wonder what caused it, what might happen if nothing is done to fix it and if it was going to be fixed, how would you go about doing it.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
that too, there are a couple of issues with epoxy coated bars... the bond strength is diminished, and they are more costly. They
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
Many DOT's and Canadian provinces in the "freeze-thaw" zones have been moving away from Epoxy Coated Rebar.
The theory is that the epoxy coating wears down in the alkali environment of the concrete in about 30 years. Based on the concrete cover used on bridges - about 3" (75mm), but depends on location - it takes about 30 years for the chlorides to reach the reinforcement. So basically, just when you need the Epoxy Coating to work - it no longer works.
Our Concrete people always say that strength = impermeability is old-school. Many DOT's now specifically have permeability requirements and don't rely on the loose relationship with strength. Rapid Chloride Penetration (RCP) is the test done - but it is not that rapid as it usually takes 56 days.
The theory is that the epoxy coating wears down in the alkali environment of the concrete in about 30 years. Based on the concrete cover used on bridges - about 3" (75mm), but depends on location - it takes about 30 years for the chlorides to reach the reinforcement. So basically, just when you need the Epoxy Coating to work - it no longer works.
Our Concrete people always say that strength = impermeability is old-school. Many DOT's now specifically have permeability requirements and don't rely on the loose relationship with strength. Rapid Chloride Penetration (RCP) is the test done - but it is not that rapid as it usually takes 56 days.
Burloak and gwynn... Thanks for the added info... I'm of the old school... I think strength has an influence, even if reducing the carbonation effect as well as improving the (im)permeability, and concrete cover, for sure.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
A close-up of the concrete damage at (Sister Tower) Champlain Towers EAST garage.
Do you have the url of the video?Kreemerz (Computer)27 Jun 21 21:35 said:
Thanks
SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
I have a question regarding the alleged phone call with a woman who claimed to be in the building while she was on the phone with her husband just as this whole thing started.
She reportedly yelled "honey the pool is caving in, the pool is sinking to the ground".
From the recent photos, the swimming pool doesn't look very much like it's caving in or sinking. it looks surprisingly intact.
She reportedly yelled "honey the pool is caving in, the pool is sinking to the ground".
From the recent photos, the swimming pool doesn't look very much like it's caving in or sinking. it looks surprisingly intact.
-
2
- #313
There is definitely an extensive collapse of the pool deck immediately adjacent from the pool.
And you are paraphrasing a quote of someone who was paraphrasing a quote of someone whose loved one was talking while in the process of being killed by a progressive building collapse that they were trying to make sense of after being woken up at 1:30 in the morning.
What’s your question?
And you are paraphrasing a quote of someone who was paraphrasing a quote of someone whose loved one was talking while in the process of being killed by a progressive building collapse that they were trying to make sense of after being woken up at 1:30 in the morning.
What’s your question?
Well, the question was more in regards to what she was describing. I didn't notice the pool had drained. I initially thought she had described the pool as draining. But it seems that she was only describing that it was "sinking" or "caving in". I was trying to understand what she was describing.
Also, not sure where she was in the building.... and how one could see that pool actually caving in.
I'm assuming the story is authentic.
Also, not sure where she was in the building.... and how one could see that pool actually caving in.
I'm assuming the story is authentic.
@Kreemerz I think it's safe to assume by "pool" the eyewitnesses were describing the pool area. As in, the entire ground level slab that collapsed as can be seen in the photos. The pool itself had walls extending to the foundation, so it remained intact.
-
2
- #317
There are other reports (which I can no longer remember where I saw them) from employees at the building that minutes before the collapse, they were seeing flooding in the bottom garage level where the valet parking was located. At first I thought it might have been from the main pool, but the image earlier in the topic shows the pool is still full the next morning. It seems reasonable it was the spa that caused the flooding they saw, though it could also be a water line broke if the deck above was in the process of failing.
Also, a former mainentance manager from 1995-2000 who worked at both the South and North towers claims the South tower lower level garage would flood with saltwater during king tides and it was so bad the cars would be floating down there:
He goes on to say the North tower did not exhibit this issue. It's not a smoking gun, but if true, it is another example of there being serious saltwater infiltration issues going on at the property beyond just the improperly sloped promenade deck by the pool.
Also, a former mainentance manager from 1995-2000 who worked at both the South and North towers claims the South tower lower level garage would flood with saltwater during king tides and it was so bad the cars would be floating down there:
He goes on to say the North tower did not exhibit this issue. It's not a smoking gun, but if true, it is another example of there being serious saltwater infiltration issues going on at the property beyond just the improperly sloped promenade deck by the pool.
Dik; I did experience one annual freeze thaw cycle.
The heater failed on my underground stock watering system.
I froze up in the fall and thawed the next May.
The frost goes down a long way and the earth is slow to warm up.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
The heater failed on my underground stock watering system.
I froze up in the fall and thawed the next May.
The frost goes down a long way and the earth is slow to warm up.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
Thanks for the URL!DavPc (Computer)28 Jun 21 00:49 said:
Please find me the URL, and I'll sleuth it out.Kreemerz (Computer)27 Jun 21 21:35 said:
SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
- Status
Similar threads
- Question
- Locked
- Question